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Thread: confused about software/DAC requirements of laser projectors

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galvonaut View Post
    Probably not a bad thing to be honest as it's pushed me towards LSX.
    It's a pity that's the case but I'm presuming this is helping to give people a reason to buy from official sources and prevent piracy given one or two recent reports on here in the last year of FB3 clones appearing in China.

  2. #22
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    I suppose it works both ways. In my case, it feels like a case of bad customer relations more than an attempt at IP protection - which was not mentioned at all in the email.

    I understand that it is important to protect IP but at the expense of a customer who has, essentially put money in your pocket?

    I don't want to rubbish Pangolin as they produce some amazing products including Quickshow, which has given me an easy ride into producing laser shows as an amateur. I simply have not had the best customer service experience, which is surprising given that Pangolin is USA based - disregarding the fact that I bought through feebay as a newb!

    I supplied Pangolin with a serial number and the name of the retailer I purchased from. If Pangolin were concerned about their customer base, I would expect them to air their concerns that I may have a fake product and do the necessary checks to ensure that I did not have a bad experience with a clone under their good name. Instead I got a long-winded 'No' explaining that they were following other software companies lead and that Pangolin may allow access in the future for an additional charge.

    I hope that anyone considering a Pangolin product, expecting the benefits of the show portal reads this and ensures that they purchase through an authorised dealer.

    I found out about the portal after the event and I felt disappointed with Pangolin's customer service, so anyone reading PL expecting access would be thoroughly peed off, which is why I'm letting people know (and doing Pangolin a favour I guess?).

    Keith

  3. #23
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    Did you ever start a thread on this? I'm not not trusting you but wow that doesn't seem like the Bill that I have meet at SELEMs. I myself have found LSX to be the best bang for the buck myself also, had considered picking up just a quickshow for the live functions but now question that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galvonaut View Post
    I suppose it works both ways. In my case, it feels like a case of bad customer relations more than an attempt at IP protection - which was not mentioned at all in the email.

    I understand that it is important to protect IP but at the expense of a customer who has, essentially put money in your pocket?

    I don't want to rubbish Pangolin as they produce some amazing products including Quickshow, which has given me an easy ride into producing laser shows as an amateur. I simply have not had the best customer service experience, which is surprising given that Pangolin is USA based - disregarding the fact that I bought through feebay as a newb!

    I supplied Pangolin with a serial number and the name of the retailer I purchased from. If Pangolin were concerned about their customer base, I would expect them to air their concerns that I may have a fake product and do the necessary checks to ensure that I did not have a bad experience with a clone under their good name. Instead I got a long-winded 'No' explaining that they were following other software companies lead and that Pangolin may allow access in the future for an additional charge.

    I hope that anyone considering a Pangolin product, expecting the benefits of the show portal reads this and ensures that they purchase through an authorised dealer.

    I found out about the portal after the event and I felt disappointed with Pangolin's customer service, so anyone reading PL expecting access would be thoroughly peed off, which is why I'm letting people know (and doing Pangolin a favour I guess?).

    Keith
    leading in trailing technology

  4. #24
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    To be honest I didn't want to start a thread on the subject. All I want to do is warn people to buy through authorised channels whenever I see the phrase 'Pangolin free show portal' mentioned.

    I suppose, now we are discussing it anyway - I may as well. At least then Pangolin will be able to explain their reasoning behind the decision.

  5. #25
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    Pangolin usually offer very good customer service so there must be an important reason as to why this additional policy has come about. I rather suspect piracy as I mentioned above, but only Pangolin can answer that with any certainty.

  6. #26
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    I am outside the state right now, writing from a hotel lobby, so I will be brief.

    There are a very few companies who are selling Pangolin products but who are not abiding by the terms of our dealer policy. As one example, Pangolin offers a 90-day money-back guarantee but there are a very few ebay sellers who have sales policy like "all sales are final". These are not authorized Pangolin dealers. Because of this -- at the front page of the portal, we make it very clear that -- if you purchase from an authorized Pangolin dealer, then you'll gain access to the portal, and also gain access to yet additional benefits. We also make this clear when people download a demo version. Part of our auto-responder strongly encourages purchase from authorized Pangolin dealers, who are required to honor the 90-day money back guarantee. As far as I know, Pangolin is still the only company in this industry (and I've not seen this outside the industry) offering a 90-day money-back guarantee.

    There have been indeed very very few people who have been refused access to the portal (thousands and thousands and thousands of users, with only two refusals). I do not recall any email interaction with Galvonaut, but also since he does not sign posts with his real name, it's hard for me to correlate this. In the past, I've also written private PL messages to Gavonaut with no response. So... I have to wonder if Galvonaut is not a "plant" or a competitor going by a different name, merely trying to stir up something... I hope this is not the case, but I do have to wonder given some of the nature of this thread.

    I have to say, I don't recall having an email discussion with anybody about refusing shows-portal access BEFORE a purchase is made, and I get the impression that Galvonaut is saying that he went with LSX instead of Pangolin because he could not gain access to the portal. I will emphasize that I am writing from a hotel lobby, without fully absorbing this thread, so all of this could be completely innocent and above-board.

    I will also say (and the shows portal terms of service states) that we reserve the right to change the policy and adjust it from time to time on an as-needed basis. And exceptions have been made. Again, I don't recall any email exchange with Galvonaut and of course such exchanges are always welcome. If Galvonaut writes to me directly, I am sure something can be worked out. Heck, I'd like to discuss how he came up with the great name Galvonaut as well!


    Best regards,

    William Benner
    Last edited by Pangolin; 10-14-2013 at 09:36.

  7. #27
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    As a newbie who will turn into a not-so-newbie, I think you should be considering two products.

    1) Quickshow (comes with FB3 DAC)

    2) LSX + a DAC (Etherdream or RIYA)

    If you can afford it I would get both. They both excel in different ways. The frustrations you get with one will be satisfied by the other.

  8. #28
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    One more piece of software has not been noted and is open source LFI player http://http://sourceforge.net/projects/lfiplayer3d/. It is not great for creation other than abstracts but a solid piece of software. I have used a riya on my personal stuff but my next Dac will be the etherdream and LSX for software. I have mashed buttons with Livepro but haven't messed with the othe pangolin stuff so no comment from me there. Although I have used the Amiga version...

    Laser lips had a good point if you can afford both it is nice to have easy ui and/or complex functions easily available (yea math). If you just want try out software with a visualization image go with LFI then choose later.

    As for galvonaut I know his IP address and talk to him in pl irc daily, join us there if you want a conversation (we don't always stay on topic).

    No solution is the best, just figure out your budget and there are plenty of solutions.

    Adam
    Support your local Janitor- not solicited .

    Laser (the acronym derived from Light Amplification by Stimulated Emissions of Radiation) is a spectacular manifestation of this process. It is a source which emits a kind of light of unrivaled purity and intensity not found in any of the previously known sources of radiation. - Lasers & Non-Linear Optics, B.B. Laud.

  9. #29
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    One more point (this time from the airport). Galvonaut, if you're talking about not being able to gain access to the Pangolin Shows Portal before you've purchased, the answer there is a lot more simple. Much of the content on the shows portal is "keyed" to the hardware serial number with which you register. So if you haven't yet purchased, then it means you don't yet have a serial number and thus, can't register. We're not trying to be mean, it's just a technological limitation.

    With that having been said, based on feedback of some other demo clients, we're changing how the Shows Portal appears in demo software (since it's accessible from the Help menu). There is a kind of demo version that shows what the portal looks like and gives a kind of peek as to what's there. Currently there are a total of 276 shows, of which nearly 200 are playable by BEYOND (because BEYOND can play both native and also QS shows) and the rest is LD2000 related content. There are also a few demo workspaces, and even some useful utilities provided by Pangolin partners such as MA Lighting (the people who make the Grand MA lighting console).

    Seeing that you've got 295 posts, the likelihood is that you're a real person, and not just a double login from someone else. I hope you're not offended by my previous comment, but I've sent you private messages offering free software with absolutely no response, and your latest post concerns a lack of access to the shows portal as biasing you toward considering a competitor who doesn't even have a Shows Portal... So it just seemed a bit strange. We've seen a lot of dual-identities and the like on portals over the years...

    For anyone interested, a direct line to me as well as the rest of the Pangolin team is always available. We're available by telephone nearly 24 hours a day and nearly 7 days a week. (Just pick up the phone and call and you might be surprised at just when we'll answer the phone.) Likewise I'm available by Instant Messenger at PangolinLaser, and by Skype at PangolinShows. Currently I'm really focused on development and so I don't get to PL very often...

    Best regards,

    William Benner

  10. #30
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    Galvonaut is definitely not a plant. At least, of the few people I ever knew who actually talked to plants, not one of them has ever called them 'Keith' to the best of my knowledge.

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