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Thread: Z-5 Analog Abstract Generator

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshMcFadden View Post
    Doc,

    I should mention that ARP didn't hold with my theory that LFO rates and all VCQO frequencies should be controlled by knobs and amplitudes should be controlled by slidepots. That was my own idea, based on something I read in an electronic music magazine I was getting in the 1970s. I think that was one of my few truly original ideas in building the instrument, along with my way of inducing perspective rotation in X or Y axis. And, by the way, unless I miss my guess (which I may have), you got the instrument locked-up because you failed to realise that the X or Y rotation VCQO is what drives the perspective rotation and if the switch for that VCQO is in "hold", nothing's going to rotate.

    Clear as mud yet? I've found a front-panel JPG which I'll post here later and try to talk you guys through the flow, but I still need to get my hands on my original Users' Manual to explain things like "The Zero Position" you use to get everything unlocked when you've finally driven the VCAs into a clip and have nothing but a little spaghetti squiggle off to one corner of your projection field.
    Someone else. I never had access to one to get locked up. Point taken about the freq/amp convention for controls, I thought ARP also did this. I think I have seen it on some panel before in a photo, when all I had was library books to learn from. I can't remember whose it was though. What ARP definitely did share with you was this neutral position thing. It's a good idea. Especially in Phase Modulation synth coding. PM or FM synths have a minimum parameter count of maybe 150 controls, easily rising to over 2000 in the case of Yamaha's FS1R or any multitimbral synth based on even simple FM. Fortunately digital storage as 'Init Voice' was Yamaha's way of easily resetting to defaults. I first came across the idea in a library book! And the ARP2600 was the synth specifically used to illustrate it. This is an excellent starting point in any system like this, because the question of why a position is considered neutral always arises, and the answer for each case is usually simple, and quickly guides a person in use of the control in other positions. What's more, main signal flow becomes apparent the moment you look at the few controls whose 'neutral' or 'zero' positions are in any state that is not either off or minimum.

    In short, I think you raised what might be the most important way to start. I remember that this neutral or zero position thing was my fastest way to learn a synth when I finally got one, without getting lost or breaking something. (Speakers and amps, like scan mirrors, CAN be broken by the early synths, which often run 'hot' (SCI Pro One for example, has a raw 15V on its output!))

    One thing I can add: When coding my own PM synth I found that the best way to write what will eventually become its manual is to write my notes as I discover or create stuff. If I wait till it's old hat, it will be unreadable nonsense more likely than not, to anyone new to it! One antidote to this risk is to write from memory in direct answer to a question (as Ash did just now), but the best of all is to take notes when it's actually new to US, whoever we are, whatever our level of experience is. That's the best shot at them making sense to another newcomer, AND the best shot that they'll make sense to the writer who looks at their own work months or years later. I did badly at school many years ago because I learned too late how important it is to take good notes at the time! The reason I can code a complex instrument now, is that I learned to correct this error. When exploring, DRAW YOUR OWN MAPS. It's usually the best way, because after all, who else is with you? If you're exploring, chances are you're in limited company, or alone. Later on, a manual can be more easily written, but by that time you won't be a writer, so much as an editor... At this point, hindsight is very useful. There may be other methods, but the way I see it, this one is the one that will save me from having to field the most questions if I ever get my work into a publishable state.


    One other thing I can add, from an artistic point rather than technical: Use of SLOW speeds... With my only laser show ever done for an audience, all I had was two sinewaves, each variable in frequency and amplitude, four knobs in all. And I could have any colour I wanted so long as it was argon blue. At fixed intensity. 20mW. This is so minimal that if you took one knob away all you'd have left was a 'liquid sky' effect at most! it quickly became apparent that at one extreme the beam could be waved slowly like waving a hand in the air, or at the other extreme, a frazzling aray of fast Lissajous stuff with non-integer relations for crazy 'randomlike' effect. The only remaining question was: how inventive could I get between these extremes while at least attempting to fit with what the DJ was playing? Fortunately the answer was: enough to get people off their bar stools and make them dance, AND make the DJ start paying attention as well. Good enough for me... One important aspect of SLOW motions is that with fast scanners you can cut between lots of them, giving the illusion of many slow things happening at once. To get the best of this principle some degree of clever multiplexing will be needed, and likely plenty of 'travelling salesman' optimisations, so this may end up being something LSX might do, rather than being done by any analog console. I mention it though, because I think it might allow some new forms of display that I haven't seen in any videos yet.
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 01-05-2014 at 15:28.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshMcFadden View Post
    unless I miss my guess (which I may have), you got the instrument locked-up because you failed to realize that the X or Y rotation VCQO is what drives the perspective rotation and if the switch for that VCQO is in "hold", nothing's going to rotate.
    Bingo! I'm sure that is exactly what happened. It makes sense now. Thanks for the explanation. (These little gems are things we need to capture and put into the users manual.) And yeah, it was DZ and I who locked up the console, not The Doctor. But no problem - it's easy to lose track of who is who on the forum, especially with an active thread like this one.

    I still need to get my hands on my original Users' Manual to explain things like "The Zero Position" you use to get everything unlocked when you've finally driven the VCAs into a clip and have nothing but a little spaghetti squiggle off to one corner of your projection field.
    The description you posted earlier is an excellent starting point. That's the sort of thing that needs to be explained to a new user. When you get things so screwed up that all you have is hash on the output, it's time to return to the Zero Position. Thank you for taking the time to type that out. If you are able to find a copy of the original manual, it would be awesome to get that scanned and available. (Please, oh please!?!)

    Adam

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffo View Post
    Bingo! I'm sure that is exactly what happened. It makes sense now. Thanks for the explanation. (These little gems are things we need to capture and put into the users manual.) And yeah, it was DZ and I who locked up the console, not The Doctor. But no problem - it's easy to lose track of who is who on the forum, especially with an active thread like this one.



    The description you posted earlier is an excellent starting point. That's the sort of thing that needs to be explained to a new user. When you get things so screwed up that all you have is hash on the output, it's time to return to the Zero Position. Thank you for taking the time to type that out. If you are able to find a copy of the original manual, it would be awesome to get that scanned and available. (Please, oh please!?!)

    Adam
    Just wanted to thank all of you for some tremendous input. I am not a Laserist, but rather a laser puke who spent hours in the attic hanging mirrors on more hours on the ground arguing with local rad-safe morons.
    This discussion has re-energized my interest in building my own cycloid box.
    DZ's approach is very rational. It certainly supports his thoughts on performance, as do the thoughts and designs of several other contributors.
    I am embarking on a build that will be modular, rather than singular panel. Is this forum where I need to be to discuss my project?
    J

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorocks View Post
    I am embarking on a build that will be modular, rather than singular panel. Is this forum where I need to be to discuss my project?
    J
    You could easily do worse. For combining various things like machine control protocols, optics, lasers, electronics, there may not be many places that mix them all in a balance you can easily use.

  5. #115
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    Thank you. I need to get a flak jacket, then try to sir things up.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshMcFadden View Post
    I will be in America in March. Sounds like fun! Let me see if I can arrange a travel schedule (and financing for the trip).
    Holy crap! I missed this post earlier.

    Ash, when in March are you arriving in the US? Because the Florida meet will actually begin late in the evening on February 28th, and March 1st (Saturday) is when the main event will take place.

    It's going to be held in Tavares, Florida, which is less than an hour's drive from Orlando. If you can get to the airport (either MCO for the international airport, or ORL for the smaller executive airport) either on Friday or early Saturday, I'm sure we could arrange to pick you up and take you to the event, and drive you back again on Sunday. The hotel everyone is staying at is literally less than half a block away from the venue, so we are all in the same place.

    It would be AWESOME to see you there. DZ will have his console there, of course, and I'm sure everyone would really enjoy meeting you and hearing you talk (and possibly demonstrate) how a pro can get the most out of the unit.

    Please keep in touch with DZ or myself about your travel plans as we get closer. If there is anything I can do to help make this happen, just ask!

    Quote Originally Posted by glorocks View Post
    I am not a Laserist, but rather a laser puke who spent hours in the attic hanging mirrors on more hours on the ground arguing with local rad-safe morons.
    Haha! Sounds like you've spent a lot of time cleaning bounce mirrors then! I like the idea of your project... Where are you located? Any chance that you could join us in Florida for the next FLEM? You'd be able to see DZ's console in person and have a chance to play with it... Might give you some inspiration. Plus it's going to be a lot of fun to just get together with everyone and geek out for a day.

    Is this forum where I need to be to discuss my project?
    This sub-forum is actually for buying and selling things, so you might want to start a new thread in the Laser Shows, Projectors, and Scanning sub-forum instead. But yeah, I'm sure you'll get plenty of replies, as it seems that old-school analog effects are finally making a bit of a comeback. (Which is pretty cool...)

    Adam

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorocks View Post
    I am embarking on a build that will be modular, rather than singular panel. Is this forum where I need to be to discuss my project?
    J
    J, there are a few people from the modular synth community looking at doing something in this area. It may be worth pooling resources. 3 of the people are manufacturers, so assuming you are already part of that community as well you may want to get in touch.
    Tommy

  8. #118
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    buffo, you can count on a text version of the original manual next time I can get someone to drop by my house in Ireland and send it over.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshMcFadden View Post
    buffo, you can count on a text version of the original manual next time I can get someone to drop by my house in Ireland and send it over.
    Thanks Ash, that will really be a huge plus for the folks who have one of these units on order.

    So, have you finalized your travel plans yet? Any chance of you making it to FLEM on March 1st? (If not, we *might* be able to organize a separate event that would better coincide with your visit to the states...)

    I know I'm not alone when I say that it sure would be awesome to see you operate this console in person...

    Adam

  10. #120
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    Adam,

    I think I've been away from this sport for too long. Tell me again what FLEM stands for (sounds sort of phlegmish), where is it, how long does it last, etc?? I'll be in America until the first week in April and if you guys are going to be there, it sounds like something I really should attend.

    I intend to publish the P-4 manual here for all you folks, but the Z-5 has a few extra features which will involve a bit of a re-write. Not a lot, though.

    I wish my photo of Edward Teller jamming on the P-4 hadn't burned in the fire. Would have been a great advertisement.

    Ash

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