Z-5 Analog Abstract Generator

[discothefunkyhippo]

I think you did a really great job on this. This is one sexy console and I can't wait to get my hands on one.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to make this available.

-Sal

[absolom7691]

Awesome work. Just based on your videos, this is an amazing piece of hardware. I seriously tip my hat to you, David!

[laserist]

1. I wasn't criticizing the product. I was criticizing the critic.
2. If you think it’s hard to “get into this ‘hobby’” you’re just not paying attention.
3. Labels are for dilettantes.
4. Sticks and stones

This elitist attitude is exactly why it's so damned hard for people to get into this hobby. Here we have a member (DZ) who has worked very hard to make something that everyone here can benefit from, and you're acting as if it's a bad thing. What have YOU done to help the community lately?

Doc's suggestions are valid - it is very difficult to understand how the console operates by just looking at it. How do I know? Because I got the chance to play with it for about 4 hours last Saturday, and I mentioned more or less the same thing to DZ that Doc did. As a result of my experimenting, he plans to add a few extra labels to further define what certain controls actually do.

Increasing it's usability does not take away any of it's functionality. There's no danger of making it "worse". Unless, of course, you think it's bad that other people might actually learn how to use the damned thing, thus producing more cool content for the rest of us. And if that's really your attitude, then you can fuck right off.

Sorry for the rant, DZ, but after seeing this awesome piece of work running in my own living room last weekend, it really grinds my gears to see someone else shitting on it.

Adam

[buffo]

1. I wasn't criticizing the product. I was criticizing the critic.

The critic proposed a change to the product, which the builder (DZ) decided to implement despite your objections. So yes, you were criticizing the product - specifically the aforementioned modifications.

2. If you think it’s hard to “get into this ‘hobby’” you’re just not paying attention.

Thanks to places like PL, it is much easier to get into lasers now. It was not always the case. There weren't any decent references in the 1990's. Alt.lasers was an elitist gathering for industry snobs with the occasional helpful person thrown in. (Such as Steve Roberts, Sam Goldwasser, and a few other notable exceptions.)

People with your attitude are the very reason this website needed to be put up in the first place.

3. Labels are for dilettantes.

So now you're arguing that in order to be professional, you have to do things the hard way? That's beyond stupid. First, this product is not aimed at laser professionals. The pros have long since abandoned analog consoles in favor of more advanced methods to create abstracts. (Digisynth comes to mind...)

Second, even if it were designed to be sold to professionals, adding labels does not in any way detract from the dedication required to master the use of this console.

You sound like a washed-up has-been who is desperately clinging to their glory days; totally offended that someone else might figure out an easier (not to mention better) way to re-create the abstracts that were so popular in the late 1980's and early 1990's.

But no matter how hard you rage against progress, it's going to happen regardless. What's more, if it weren't for the hobbyist interest in these old-school effects, no one would ever know or care about these analog consoles. For sure you don't see planetariums rushing out to buy these things anymore. If you wanted to preserve the legacy of these devices (and the people who operated them), you've sure got an ass-backward way of doing it...

4. Sticks and stones

If the boot fits...

Adam

[laserist]

The critic proposed a change to the product, which the builder (DZ) decided to implement despite your objections. So yes, you were criticizing the product - specifically the aforementioned modifications.

No, according to your post - "As a result of my experimenting, he plans to add a few extra labels to further define what certain controls actually do." Not because of anything posted here. Can you say revisionist? Can you say specious?

Thanks to places like PL, it is much easier to get into lasers now. It was not always the case. There weren't any decent references in the 1990's. Alt.lasers was an elitist gathering for industry snobs with the occasional helpful person thrown in. (Such as Steve Roberts, Sam Goldwasser, and a few other notable exceptions.)

Luckilly I earned my spurs in the 70's - so feel free to imagine my sympathy for your hard road...

People with your attitude are the very reason this website needed to be put up in the first place.

I'll certainly grant that Robert doesn't get the rewards he deserves.

So now you're arguing that in order to be professional, you have to do things the hard way? That's beyond stupid. First, this product is not aimed at laser professionals. The pros have long since abandoned analog consoles in favor of more advanced methods to create abstracts. (Digisynth comes to mind...)

No, I said that to actually do live performances you don't have time to look for labels. One can do a canned show with as many labels and crutches one desires it's not as if realtime constraints apply.

Second, even if it were designed to be sold to professionals, adding labels does not in any way detract from the dedication required to master the use of this console.

Actually the addition of lables takes up room - which moves the controls further apart which detracts from the console's playability.

You sound like a washed-up has-been who is desperately clinging to their glory days; totally offended that someone else might figure out an easier (not to mention better) way to re-create the abstracts that were so popular in the late 1980's and early 1990's.

OK but just for the record - how many live shows have you done?

But no matter how hard you rage against progress, it's going to happen regardless. What's more, if it weren't for the hobbyist interest in these old-school effects, no one would ever know or care about these analog consoles. For sure you don't see planetariums rushing out to buy these things anymore. If you wanted to preserve the legacy of these devices (and the people who operated them), you've sure got an ass-backward way of doing it...

There are two kind of fools. Those who say this is the way it's always been done and therefore best, and those that say this is new and therefore better.

If the boot fits...Adam

Oh, I don't think you really want my boots in this conversation...

[JohnYayas]

Congrats on finishing it DZ! I wish I could ever finish a project I start. Looks very professional and I know it is... despite being built by a hobbyist.

[kecked]

can you post some video of it in action. Would be nice to see how analog looks compared to digital.

[laserlackey]

Got to see the prototype in action at SELEM. Wish I had an extra $1500 burning a hole in my pocket, I'd love to have one of these. Someday soon, I hope.

[White-Light]

I think DZ has outdone himself with the Z-5 analog console.

As I can't better this comment I just thought I'd copy it.

Abstracts are not really my thing and I certainly don't have the commitment to do it analogue-ly. But if I was going to, then DZ's control box would be the way.

Truly outstanding piece of work and a collectors item in the making.

[buffo]

No, according to your post - "As a result of my experimenting, he plans to add a few extra labels to further define what certain controls actually do." Not because of anything posted here.

You conveniently forgot that The Doctor first posted a suggestion for the same thing long before I ever joined the thread. *His* suggestion is what initially set you off and spurred my reply, not my later post which you quoted above. Bottom line - we're discussing the same thing.

Luckilly I earned my spurs in the 70's - so feel free to imagine my sympathy for your hard road...

Bully for you. Don't expect any reverence from people just because you did something 40 years ago and have been mum about it since. This website is for the open sharing of information and the promotion of lasers and laser shows. It's not a retirement home for washed-up has-beens to relive their glory days while breathless groupies fawn at their former greatness. If you're looking for that sort of response - go elsewhere.

I'll certainly grant that Robert doesn't get the rewards he deserves.

Nor do the other professionals (and gifted amateurs) here on PL who give their time and knowledge freely so others can enjoy the art. Those people have the respect of the entire community.

I said that to actually do live performances you don't have time to look for labels.

You said that labels were for dilettantes. That's not the same thing. I've done live shows using modern midi controllers, and I label the sliders. So do most operators I've worked with.

Actually the addition of lables takes up room - which moves the controls further apart which detracts from the console's playability.

Did you even read what was suggested? No one said anything about moving the controls any further apart. You're railing against a straw man here.

just for the record - how many live shows have you done?

A better question would be, "How many canned shows have you done?" The answer to that is exactly 2. *ALL* of my other shows have been live. And while I'm no threat to Lasernet, or lightwave, or even Peachtree, I've done shows for the likes of Tiesto (twice), Paul Van Dyke, DJ Icey, Baby Anne, and even Bo Bice down in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba for the troops stationed there. (That was New Year's Eve, 2011, and DZ was with me on that gig.) Seriously - apart from a corporate gig, who does pre-choreographed shows these days? Everything is live now, from your local nightclub gigs all the way to large concerts.

I used to use LivePro with a Novation Remote Zero controller and two monitors, one of which was a touch screen. But lately I've shifted to Beyond and an APC-40, and I think it works a lot better. I haven't found a place to print a custom label for the APC-40 though, and unlike the Remote Zero you don't have an LCD above the controls to label them in software.

About the only time I actually watch canned shows anymore is at SELEM. And even there, you'll notice that there are TWO areas set up for shows. The auditorium is for set-piece stuff that has been pre-choreographed, but the cafeteria area is strictly for live shows. Some people love to sit in the auditorium and watch shows there, and that's cool, but I spend most of my time in the cafeteria with the rest of the live show junkies. (There are a lot more projectors in there too, and far more controllers.)

There are two kind of fools. Those who say this is the way it's always been done and therefore best, and those that say this is new and therefore better.

False dichotomy; there are innumerable types of fools.

Furthermore, just because it's old doesn't mean it's the best, and just because it's new doesn't mean it's better. There is plenty of room in the middle. To wit: the old-school analog console is still cool for some live effects, but it can always be improved. Some of the best effects David and I got out of the console were accomplished by starting with a colored frame in Pangolin and then manipulating it with the console. I think if we started with an abstract instead (so we would have control over the color cycle speed) the effect would be even better.

Instead of bragging about how awesome you had to be to do these effects back in the day, why don't you share some of your experiences so others can learn?

Oh, that's right... Because you're not here to help people; you think they're supposed to struggle through it on their own. And *that* is the real reason I called you out. Notably, you haven't done anything to change anyone's mind about your intentions since then, so I'd say I pegged you pretty close to the mark. Enjoy your retirement...

Adam