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Thread: Test of DTR's "LFL" Aspheric Lens.

  1. #11
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    More detail for the LFL lens from DTR:
    A G71 diode is supplied by an LM317 based driver, with no modulation. Maximum current is set at just under 300 mA. Room temperature is about 20°C. Total power lost through the heatsink is slightly more than 3W with negligible temperature rise. The diode is oriented with pin 2 highest.

    The beam reaches a mirror at 8.4 metres and returns to a white painted wall after a total length of 18.05 metres. Once focussed for best image at 18m, it stayed set. Acrylic wouldn't have... Fast axis width at 18m is 150mm, slow axis height is only 6mm. I don't know what the fringes under the main line are caused by, or why there are none above it, but they can be removed easily by trimming the lower tip of the vertical line at aperture.

    At aperture, the beam's line is vertical, 5.5mm high. The shape appears straight by eye, but isn't. A camera shows much more detail when the beam is intercepted by a 0.1mm thick polyester diffuser as a screen. It's almost straight just above threshold current, but when driven strongly it is elliptical, and its width varies with power, about 1.5mm at about 150 mA, and about 2mm at 300mA.

    DTR said this (in answer to a PM):
    "It is longer than the G-lens in terms of the FL. They are not for single mode diodes. The great part about them is you get more of a square with diodes like the Mitsu reds and the 445nm diodes. The source I get them from does not have a datasheet so I have had to wing it but with good results."

    While I could get a squarish beam by defocussing slightly, I wouldn't do it because the divergence is still wide in both axes. Given how fine the slow axis collimation seems to be, expansion and divergence reduction of the fast axis seems to be the best way. I don't know which would do this best, prisms or cylindrical lenses. It also looks like knife-edging is best for up to four G71 diodes, and not using a PBS unless combining whole clusters of diodes. Whether that is still true with other lenses I don't know, so far I only tried this one.

    5.5mm beam width (from about 4.5mm focal length, shown in the earlier post) gets good easy results, but I will try a smaller focal length lens for a thinner beam, because it looks like slow axis divergence from a G71 will still be low. If beam correction can get the fast axis divergence anything like comparable with the slow one, the LFL lens might be very good for long distance beam shows from larger scan mirrors. Given how little light it wastes, it still collimates the slow axis very well. Most things I have read suggest that this is usually only possible by even longer focal length, which results in clipping the beam. The greatest risk of clipping with the LFL lens is in a lens retainer, so the method I used, of making a polyester film 0.1mm thick form three turns to line one of Dave's lens barrels is as good a way as any. It centres the 6mm diameter LFL lens accurately, and grips it securely enough, and allows easy refitting if necessary. And it doesn't interrupt the light. I think Dave's lens retainer has a 5.6mm bore so that might just pass the beam untouched, but adding it in this case won't help. A thin smear of glue inside the flange of the lens barrel would work better to bind the lens to the polyester and to the brass barrel. To do better, a very precise barrel would have to be made for this lens, and it might not fit any other lenses.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 11. LFL Test, G71 at 18m, 1.jpg  

    12. LFL Test, G71 at 18m, 2.jpg  

    13. LFL Test, Source, Low.jpg  

    14. LFL Test, Source, High.jpg  

    15. LFL Test, Test Rig, 1.jpg  

    16. LFL Test, Test Rig, 2.jpg  

    Last edited by The_Doctor; 11-15-2013 at 13:57.

  2. #12
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    I actually had new lens barrels made that hold this lens very tightly to keep this 6mm lens perfectly centered. Sorry you did not get a chance to get one of these barrels and had to improvise with a G-type barrel. If the lens is even slightly off center it will have a trail which is what I think you are seeing here.



    Quote Originally Posted by olive13 View Post
    Maybe A390-A with Broadband coating.
    The A390-A looks completely flat on the bottom where this lens is slightly rounded on the bottom side.
    Last edited by DTR; 11-15-2013 at 23:14.

  3. #13
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    Maybe. I thought that the trails should disappear in at least one rotational position if so, but instead it is possible to get a balance where trails appear equally on both sides. Tweaking the barrel upwards in its mount with slight pressure momentarily reduced them though. So some concentricity error seems to be in the mount or the diode. What is the tolerance of the fit between your barrels and the lens?

    Wouldn't error in lens concentricity cause the angle of the trails to change as the barrel rotates during adjustment? No such change happens, only lengths are affected by any movement I could make.. (When seeing upward trails, they deviated at an angle equal to the lower ones, and toward the same lateral direction as those do.)

  4. #14
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    Dnar, I fitted that TEC, but first test showed no difference I could detect by eye. I'm not sure whether I'll get accurate temperature readings unless I go to lengths beyond those appropriate to a quick test, because it looks like if I try to get a quick and dirty measure I'll skew the reality with parasitic heat load, because the TEC isn't going to get much temperature difference while a diode is running. Assuming about 1W of heat load from the diode, plus unknown parastic load, there may not be a lot left to pump much difference in temperature. We don't know the exact TECt details, so I looked at Melcor's guide book (old, at least 15 years now). There are 17 thermocouples, 15mm square TEC about 5mm high. The closest match is Melcor's CP series TEC CP1.4-17-10L. 4.7mm high, Qmax only 4.5W, Vmax 2.06V, Imax 3.9A. My first test was two NiMH cells in series, pushing 3.3A, while the diode was running. I couldn't detect any change in focus of the lens, not any wavelength shift or brightness increase for constant current. I tried a second test, allowing the diode mount to cool with no power to the diode, allowing about three minutes before powering the diode. Again, no visible change.

    I'll try an ATX PSU soon, 5A bridge rectifier to drop from 3.3V to something likely safe for full TEC drive. I'll set up a camera and tripod to try to catch before/after shots for detailed visual examination. If that doesn't work I'll have to get a stronger TEC. For my eventual modules I aimed at 40mm and several tens of watts Qmax, on the assumption that low powering of a strong TEC might be the easiest way to get efficient and powerful temperature changes while running as yet uncertain heat loads on it. They haven't arrived yet, so I might yet trouble RS. They cost, but such is the price of no waiting at all. Next day, if I want it.. Can't fit a 40mm TEC between bolts with centres 34mm apart without some silly kludging, so I might do this with one of their 30mm TEC's. I'm sure I can mileage out of it in future somehow.

    EDIT:
    Do you or anyone else know of a cheap source of a few small PT100 sensors? I think it's worth getting some if the price is good because their accuracy usually pays for itself. (Quick and dirty tests can be accurate on any good millivoltmeter using a low constant current source, or even direct ohmeter reading, plus a small calculation).
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 11-19-2013 at 09:56.

  5. #15
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    Element14 carry PT100 sensors.

    My rule of thumb for TEC's is for every 1W pumped, your looking at around 1W input, 2W total on the hot side.
    This space for rent.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnar View Post
    Element14 carry PT100 sensors.

    My rule of thumb for TEC's is for every 1W pumped, your looking at around 1W input, 2W total on the hot side.
    On its own that may mean nothing. Assessing parasitic loading is not a simple task, so knowing the watts pumped isn;t simple. It also depends a great deal on the delta T. And on hot side temperature too. So my rule of thumb is: throw heaps of pumping capacity at the task (about 5 times the maximum known heat load including that of some future plan), that solves two big problems immediately without further thought: 1, it's more efficient, gives a lot more scope on the curved graph for good results. 2, big TEC's reduce the impact of parasitic loads, and make thermal coupling to the heatsink easier. So long as it's flat, anyway.. TEC design guides go to greater depth, but mainly based on the assumption that bigger TEC's are expensive, and won't fit in small places, so many more exact details are considered, especially if they must fly or go into space or any other situation where there is little room for doubt or unknowns. Actually there's a third: TEC's are weak in shear force, so a bigger one helps a lot with that. I should have put those bolts further apart, but never mind...

    Thanks for the tip about Element14. (Named after silicon?)
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 11-19-2013 at 11:29.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnar View Post
    Element14 carry PT100 sensors.
    I think RS are cheaper. Wasn't expecting that. Their cheapest a few years ago was at least 6 quid.

    http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/bro...D2031%2B203544
    http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/automa...order=asc&pn=1
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 11-19-2013 at 11:56.

  8. #18
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    RS cheaper? Thats crazy talk!

    I ran en experiment a few years back with a 66W TEC. More a "tinker and mess around" than anything. I bolted up 2 kick ass heatsinks and ran the TEC closed loop such that the cold side ran as cold as possible avoiding saturation and thermal reversing. The cold side was insulated from the hot side by a sheet of fiberglass. After a few days I had a nice chunk of ice on the bench.

    How was this useful? No use, But I learnt a lot about TEC behavior and their limits.
    This space for rent.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnar View Post
    RS cheaper? Thats crazy talk!

    I ran en experiment a few years back with a 66W TEC. More a "tinker and mess around" than anything. I bolted up 2 kick ass heatsinks and ran the TEC closed loop such that the cold side ran as cold as possible avoiding saturation and thermal reversing. The cold side was insulated from the hot side by a sheet of fiberglass. After a few days I had a nice chunk of ice on the bench.

    How was this useful? No use, But I learnt a lot about TEC behavior and their limits.
    It should be crazy. This is why I didn't check them earlier. But they'll sell class A accuracy for less than Farnell (UK source for Element14 apparently) will sell class B with otherwise same specs. Class B cheaper still. If you know of definite cheaper, I'm all eyes. I hate spending money. Got to be PT100 though. I know that small NTC thermistors are cheaper, but this is low volume, working by hand, so the difference saved would be many times lost in arranging for thermistors, probably.

    Re TEC's I think my method might be overkill, but the thing is, it's cheap, (20 of them for 70 quid, cheap if they make it here intact, anyway. But in addition to whatever I said before, it's pure torque. I can be damn sure that this way if I want to try -20C whatever I load them with (within reason), I'll get it. My main concern will be a proportional driver, and I'll sense the hot side too so I can have safe shut-off before heating melts eveything apart. (Won't just be the TEC, I'll likely be using 117°C solder to fix other stuff on it after epoxying on a 0.5mm copper sheet.)

  10. #20
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    My local regular does them for AUD $9. It's about a cheap as your going to get. http://oceancontrols.com.au/NOS-020.html

    Farnell = Element14. I have no idea why they changed their name. Are they still Farnell in the UK? My nick name for them was always "Fark-n-ell".
    This space for rent.

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