Forum Advice Needed

[andy_con]

I wont be mentioning any names as this isn't to slag anyone off, the name of the other party makes no odds.

so the story goes...

I was selling some drivers in march this year and forum member 1 said they would buy them, then forum member 2 pretty much begged for some and contacted forum member 1 to ask if he could have some. they came to a deal which was fine.

so 10 odd went to forum member 1 and 5 went to forum member 2. the sale was in march this year and I was selling some use and some new drivers, as far as I was concerned all the used ones were working as I removed them from working units and replaced them with Thomas driver.

forum member 2 didn't realise he was getting used drivers, I probably didn't say he didn't ask...

fast forward to today and I get a PM from forum member 2 saying he has just got round to using the drivers and 3 are faulty can he have a refund.

now I was very surprised to receive such a message from forum member 2 due to the months past and the fact as far as I was aware all the drivers were working. like I say they came off working modules and if they were faulty I would have sold them as faulty.

forum member 1 has never had any problems with the ones he purchased which was a mixture of new and used.

now I don't want to be unreasonable but im reluctant to issue and refund, if I do I would expect the faulty drivers back. im sure forum member 2 knows how to wire them up and use them etc... but I don't know if they have been damaged - esd or something

please help forum, what are peoples views?

im sure forum member 2 will read this and I hope he doesn't post here, only cos it makes no odds who it is, a sale is a sale and a forum member is a forum member. I don't know what to do so am looking for help not slagging off

[The_Doctor]

If you still have one, find out which is its most vulnerable part, and perhaps a few close contenders for likely failure, and see if you can replace them yourself. That's almost always the cheapest way. And the more you have control of them, the less vulnerable you'll be to a disputed claim. it may well be worth getting at least one of them back just to learn from, to compare with a good one, look for damage, etc. Given the low prices people are willing to pay for drivers, (surprisingly low given what is demanded of them), it may be cheaper to roll with the punch than try to resist it any other way. It's likely only worth a lot of extra effort if you're aiming to do repeat business.

[dnar]

How experienced and trustworthy is member #2?

I don't like issuing refunds unless I am certain the item is correctly fitted etc. I don't like paying for other peoples incompenece, er I mean inexperience.

If you have exhausted all fault finding and your confident the drivers worked when shipped, then tough I say. The ownice is on the buyer to prove you wrong. Its hard, it depends on the buyer and their attitude.

[andy_con]

Never had any dealings with member number 2 apart from this one. But Long term experienced member yes

How do I know if they have been correctly fitted and what's happened to them

[dnar]

Ask for detailed photos, wiring diagrams and voltage measurements. Assume it ain't right, work towards locating the actual problem, be it driver, wiring or insufficient supply voltage to drive the LD.

This is why the good suppliers have extensive trouble shooting guides and simple test scenarios.

[The_Doctor]

Never had any dealings with member number 2 apart from this one. But Long term experienced member yes

How do I know if they have been correctly fitted and what's happened to them

Ask him to provide written description, and ideally pictures if possible, of his procedure. What dnar said is right, it's down to the buyer to prove you provided faulty drivers. That's because by choosing to buy from you, he has accepted a source of expertise he can't acheive himself alone. So whether he talks directly with you, or wants to use an expert witness in a small claims court, he has to account for his own actions either way. It's best to make decisions after you get that account, not before. It's easier afterwards too.

Edit:
When I said "by choosing to buy from you, he has accepted a source of expertise he can't achieve himself alone" it's not clear even to me exactly how that works, because if he lacks the ability, how can he prove against one who has it? That kind of tautology is why courts got invented! But it is resolvable, without a court. Basically, he either assumes the source is technically correct and competent, or he doesn't. Can't have it both ways. A driver of a car usually knows if the car is bad, even without knowing mechanics. They just have to prove they can operate the car correctly, and show that while doing so, it still fails. When I proved that 80mW laser diodes died from retroreflection the maker never accepted the proof so the seller never refunded me for losses due to undisclosed risk. In the long run I win, because the experience has saved me a lot more than the original loss. It's way cooler to know.

[norty303]

First, if your original listing said 'some used drivers, some new' then that is fine.

Secondly, I would try and work through any issues with setup with forum member #2, and if it still looks like they are DOA, then get him to return to you for a test and refund.
You can then test them, and if they turn out to be working, sell them on again (and put a mental note next to forum member #2), or offer to return to the forum member for the costs incurred in the shipping (and maybe a little extra for the troubleshooting). You should pay for the return shipping, but only refund in the event they are faulty.

However, I would think that the length of time passed has a bearing on this. My decision to not check goods upon receipt is my own lookout, and I would learn a valuable lesson for next time. Most companies have a fairly short timescale for reporting defective goods (14 days or so)

2 things to remember here:
The customer could have broken the drivers through incorrect handling/setup.
You could have shipped him broken drivers (whether knowingly or not).

Both of you may truly believe that you are not at fault, and yet one of the 2 things above could still have happened (or they got damaged somehow in shipping, were they in ESD bags?).

[Bradfo69]

I tend to agree with everyone here that the best course is to get as much information as possible about how they were wired and hooked up - maybe some remote troubleshooting and perhaps you can find the issue.

This scenario could very easily happen to me (on both ends really). I have a very bad habit of buying things on here, opening the box once received to look at whatever the item is, and stick it back in the box having NO idea if it works or not. I have lasers that have never been turned on, electronics that have never been turned on. Just boxes... I would not feel right going back to a seller 6 or more months later if it didn't work and would chalk that up to being my own fault for not checking immediately. I might inquire about it but wouldn't feel the seller was obligated at that point.

From a selling standpoint... that's another reason why my Mount Lasermore is the size it is. Yes, there is a touch of hording going on but, by the same token I tend to worry and fret a bit about being a seller and being overly responsible for them item and buyers satisfaction. I have a number of items I really need to sell but there IS a loss of control once it leaves your hands.

[norty303]

I think people need to understand the nature of buying stuff on a 'Buy/Sell/Swap' thread on a forum too. It isn't really the same as buying through a shop/online retailer, it is like buying from private classified ads, where the watchwords are 'caveat emptor'.
Although, it isn't helped by the fact we also have very commercial sellers and proper suppliers selling through the 'Buy/Sell/Swap' section, so it is hard to distinguish.

How would you see your selling capacity in this instance Andy, hobbyist clearout, or manufacturer selling surplus stock?

a touch of hording going on

Still in denial huh Brad?

[Bradfo69]

Still in denial huh Brad?

Who, me?? Just because I haven't taken the bubble wrap off your mounts yet...?