Sleep apnoea?

[The_Doctor]

I have even recently discovered I have some very strange habits and behaviors that just don't exist with other people, such as a need to touch the floor regularly, counting things, avoiding cracks in the side walk, or if I knock something I have to knock the other way to balance it all out, or arranging items (just about everyone that has seen my new workshop at home has told me I am OCD). Things I always assumed everyone did.

I think many do. It may be considered pathological, named Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, but that may just be what happens when a need to maintain things is in some way thwarted. Top sportsman do it. Mike Atherton famously retained socks in a way that would have got him banned from a dressing room if it hadn't been a part iof what made him good at what he did. Cricketers in general are very strange beasts apparently.

I think Adam is right that you may need to look into soem specific medical stuff for a fast fix, because sleep apnoea is downright dangerous, but in the end we have to do somethign we can maintain. Most diets are not exactly maintainable, so people do fail. This is what I mean by usign what we have. Even an adrenal response can be put to use. After all, that's one thing we often get frequently, and for free. I never used to be able to run 5+ miles frequently. I was lucky if I could do one, for many years. The trick of maintaining a good habit of activity is to figure out what we can do, to experience it enough to beleive in it, to extend it, to know what we need to eat first, or carry, etc. Careful choice of painkillers can help prevent pain-avoiding gaits or other behaviours that do more harm than good. I have onset of osteo-arthritis, and mobility is vital as long term prevention, to keep the best possible movement I can get to train the parts to stay moving right as long as possible. Being heavy is similar in that it puts strain on these same parts. Codeine and paracetamol helps before and during, and at rest later, and during sleep, ibuprofen. I won't ever use ibuprofen during effort, it is (very) risky for the heart, and it mobilises collagen, which is very useful for fast healing when at rest, not so cool when the cartilage is under repeated stress!

I don't doubt there's no shortage in advice, so while I'm risking adding to it I must say: find a fix you can maintain. Getting to the point where running a few miles is anythign like easy might take three years. But it it buys you twenty, isn't it worth it? Cycling and swimming are good too. Probably better actually. Specially swimming.

[mixedgas]

Doctor:



10 cm of air gave me my life back. I then had surgery for a deviated septum.

Downsides: International travel is a witch. Getting the flu is hell. Camping requires you get a really good CPAP battery pack. Panic occurs when the machine fails, which is rare. It's a mandatory carry on,and you protect the machine like its a child.

You'll demand you get 8 hours of sleep, and some times it's less effective sleep. Which can cut into your social life.

Other then that:
You will find women would rather hear the machine the you gasping and snoring.

Your mental health gets much better.


Books that worked for me.:

Eat right for your type.
The Dash II Diet
The Mediterranean Diet.

S.R.

[The_Doctor]

Yes, the Mediterraneans know stuff we all need to know. The Japanese too, apparently. Lowest incidences worldwide of diet-related problems. About 10 days ago I found myself going dull, realised my thought was literally stalling. I decided that something primal was missing, and knowing that tinned salmon is one of the cheapest sources of oils and minerals that I might be missing, I spent on lots of the stuff. It took a couple of days to pay off, but it did work. I have no idea exactly what I was missing, I also knew that supplementation was no answer because I didn't know what to get, so I just found the strongest natural source of mixed minerals I knew of and started chucking it down in modest amounts day after day. The notion that 'fish is good for the brain' is so old it looks like an old wive's tale, but no smoke withotu fire, says I. Besides, seafood is somethign Japan and the Mediterraneans have in common so it was a bet with excellent odds.

[WookieBoy]

Another CPAP user here.

I'm an odd case though apparently as I was diagnosed at 22-23 and had been suffering with obstructive sleep apnea from around the age of 10. Nobody knew what it was really here until recently.
Also, I've never really been what you'd call over weight either.
I'm 6'7" and around 90-105kg depending on whether I'm touring or at home...

Some people just get it unfortunately..

But do not underestimate how much better life gets when you get it treated man!
I was borderline psychotic due to lack of REM sleep by the time I got my CPAP machine. Once I got used to it, and had my first nights uninterrupted sleep, I DREAMED!!!
You have to believe me that it was the most awesome thing ever to have my first dream at 22 or 23 years old!

Good luck with it all Dnar. Hope you have sweet dreams! :-)

[mixedgas]

What is horrible is how often it is misdiagnosed as something else. It was not a Medical Doctor who told me what I had, it was a PLer, a Laserist. I spent thousands of Dollars looking for the problem, test after test, Doctor after Doctor. Nothing. Then someone who knew, said something... Thank God! The mental health effects are horrid if you don't catch it.

I had it since childhood, even when I was thin as a rail. At 38 was when it really kicked in.


Steve

[buffo]

The mental health effects are horrid if you don't catch it.

This right here... Before sleep deprivation kills you, it slowly drives you insane. But yeah, as bad as the mental health issues are, the physical issues are just as bad.

Think about it from a purely analytical point of view for a moment. Imagine you are early man - call it homo-erectus. At night you sleep for 10 to 12 hours. During this time you are extremely vulnerable to predators, since you are immobile and your sensory response is significantly dulled. How in the world would a behavior so risky ever evolve, let alone persist, if it didn't have some tremendous benefit to the body? The answer is that without sleep, we DIE, so even though it puts us at increased risk from predators, it's an acceptable risk because sleep is that important.

Up until the invention of the electric light, when the sun went down everyone went to sleep. So everyone slept about the same as early hominids did 2 million years ago. But now, in just the last 100 years or so, we have dramatically cut our sleep time to accommodate the 24 hour non-stop aspect of modern life. The only problem is that our bodies are not designed to cope with this.

Very few people appreciate the importance of sleep. It's always the first thing that gets short-changed. And we're killing ourselves when we do this. Literally. For those of you reading this who think I'm off my rocker, go read the book Sleep Thieves that I linked to above. It will change your views on sleep for good. (It will also improve the quality of your life, provided you follow the simple guidelines outlined in the book.)

Adam

[dnar]

What is horrible is how often it is misdiagnosed as something else. It was not a Medical Doctor who told me what I had, it was a PLer, a Laserist. I spent thousands of Dollars looking for the problem, test after test, Doctor after Doctor. Nothing. Then someone who knew, said something... Thank God! The mental health effects are horrid if you don't catch it.

I had it since childhood, even when I was thin as a rail. At 38 was when it really kicked in.


Steve

Same here. My GP (2nd in 3 years) was pushing the "loose weight" and your blood pressure will drop barrow hard.

I went to the local pharmacy which I have to say are bloody good, they don't just sell pills... I walked in and asked if an old script I found was still valid as I had run out of mods and my doctor was booked out for 3 weeks. The pharmacist said "hey lets check your BP now" and it was 196/120. He then asked how I felt, I told him I was tired, could not go a day without a nap, on edge and ripping people new arse holes on a daily basis. His prognosis was sleep apnea, causing high carbondioxide buildup (and other effects) that leads to high blood pressure via adrenal "fight or flight" response. Turns out he was spot on. What a guy, not just keen to sell pills he is really looking after me.

Night 2 of monitored sleep was a fail, results say I am dead, walking zombie, so pretty close. Night 3 tonight... I think they may just realise I am dead. But seriously, looks like I will be hooked up with a machine, specialist and some counseling early next week. I also found another general practitioner today and had my full medical history transfered to him. He agrees with the apnea situation but also recommends I loose 23kg minimum (to move from obese to over-weight) and ultimately loose 43kg to be "normal". but hell I don't think I ever want to be "normal"... ;o) Maybe a total loonie of "normal" weight.

[WookieBoy]

What is horrible is how often it is misdiagnosed as something else. It was not a Medical Doctor who told me what I had, it was a PLer, a Laserist. I spent thousands of Dollars looking for the problem, test after test, Doctor after Doctor. Nothing. Then someone who knew, said something... Thank God! The mental health effects are horrid if you don't catch it.

I had it since childhood, even when I was thin as a rail. At 38 was when it really kicked in.


Steve

Steve, same here.

I was fortunate enough to room with some nurses while at Uni.
It was one of them that spotted it and recommend that I get my GP to refer me to the (at the time) only sleep research centre in the U.K., which happened to be where she was working.

After fighting my Gp for almost a year (he was trying to give me loads of drugs, including some quite serious amphetamines! , but one of my other roommate was a toxicologist who told me what not to take!) I was finally referred.
3 months later I happily rejoined the human race... mostly anyways...

[Galvonaut]

[snip]
Very few people appreciate the importance of sleep. It's always the first thing that gets short-changed. And we're killing ourselves when we do this. Literally. For those of you reading this who think I'm off my rocker, go read the book Sleep Thieves that I linked to above. It will change your views on sleep for good. (It will also improve the quality of your life, provided you follow the simple guidelines outlined in the book.)

Adam

You are not wrong there Adam. Since my time in the forces I have suffered from chronic fatigue syndrome (umbrella term including ME). Chronic sleep problems, chronic pain and an inability to get to sleep can rip your life apart and have massive effects on physical and mental health.

That book looks like a read. I learnt that you have to treat sleep as if it were a bank, so that if you ever undersleep, you have to pay the debt back by catching up with the lost sleep. With something like sleep apnoea I imagine that is really hard, if not impossible because you may not ever reach a deep enough sleep for it to count.

I really feel for you dnar. I can't imagine what you are dealing with but sleep symptoms are exhausting.

I wish you a speedy recovery.

Keith

[Galvonaut]

Steve, same here.

I was fortunate enough to room with some nurses while at Uni.
It was one of them that spotted it and recommend that I get my GP to refer me to the (at the time) only sleep research centre in the U.K., which happened to be where she was working.

After fighting my Gp for almost a year (he was trying to give me loads of drugs, including some quite serious amphetamines! , but one of my other roommate was a toxicologist who told me what not to take!) I was finally referred.
3 months later I happily rejoined the human race... mostly anyways...

You are so lucky to get into a sleep research centre! It's hard to get a referral, let alone an appointment.