Sleep apnoea?

[The_Doctor]

That is very true. It's why I try not to get worked up about it most times. Actually, the best we can usual;y do is make ourselves quietly ungovernable. Which is probably what most of us do anyway. But given the current circs, there's good grounds to state that this isn't enough. If we're shoved around, divided, with no sense of direction, then we need to prioritise some way to deal with that, at least till we know a better way to go. Right now it's all govt doing the pushing, That can't be right. The only strong counter-push is the outcry of patients and families of those killed, maimed, neglected, in wards and clinics that have become corrupted in their weird semi-private state, driven by 'targets' instead of care. That this is even happening is sign that the real push back stopped happening long ago. We should accept nature, or at least adapt to it, but this is made by men and women, and if those who bring this about do not accept us, should we accept what they push onto us?

Edit:
Dnar, exactly. Incidentally, what bothers me is this: Suppose people DO get efficient. Where will the slack be cut then? Cut by neighbour from another neighbour's throat? We're lucky, we have the smarts to figure out efficiencies that other can't, but in the end the pressure will push back whether we want it so or not. And if governments are too cruel and stupid to see this beforehand, then we really need to tell them, and make sure they know it.

[Galvonaut]

I'm not suggesting accepting the abuse of the vulnerable in an apethetic way, more not getting angry or frustrated, removing that block to understanding. Rioting is the result of angry descent. Community building and positive social change is the result of carefully thought out, emotionally stable thought processes resulting from acceptance of a situation.

We already have efficiencies beyond imagination. So much can now be done through automation and robotics - but as people are replaced by these systems, so the social and financial systems need to evolve. Spare time ceases to be at a premium unless people are provided for in some way and the efficiencies are aimed toward humanity in general, rather than profiteering for a few.

I think government know it. Politicians tend not to be blithering idiots, despite how the media often portray them. It is their agenda which may be in question and I think a large chunk of society is starting to see this.

Oh dear - this is getting a little heavy and way off topic (despite the clear health implications of social breakdown/restructuring).

[The_Doctor]

I'm not into riots. Ok, I enjoyed the anti-poll-tax demos and a few others thirty or so years ago, but I'm not into destruction as a cure for erosion. The closest I get to that is the 'fire break', which IS a sensible idea, at times. Like hitting abully if that's the only way to tell one that we don't want to fight. (Actually, shoving them hard in the chest usually worked for me, less damaging, just as effective, doesn't give them reason to grudge).

A lot of British people are beginning to see it now, that is true. I think the turning point was early last year, remember that 'swivelisation' joke? I think a lot of people suddenly realised they didn't want to be seen getting caught up in that. The question is whether we'll pull out of the dive before we crash. Sorry, RAF mentioned, these things make me come up with silly metaphors...

Re efficiencies, it comes down to who owns them. I'm lucky enough to have 12KWh of storage batteries, I can put solar power into them, or sign up for economy 7 mains and charge them that way, or convert a rowing machine so instead of paying for a gym, I get paid for my work! But if the govt forces people to accept tinier and tinier living spaces, where will people put this stuff? Assuming they can afford it... I only have it because I do without damn near everything else. Efficience will only stop being cruel when we're all allowed to keep some. Machines were supposed to bring an age of leisure. Where is it? I see an age of increasing poverty, weariness, loss, and illnesses like polio and measles and flu and rickets tuberculosis rising rampant in Britain now, in an age where people thought they were being beaten. Cheap drink and problems fit to rival the worst portayals of Dickens. It is heavy. People talk of the seventies as bad. I think they were better. I guess life shouldn't be expected to improve the way stupid shareholders expect others work to always push their own share values up, but right now I feel like someone strapped to a mast watching a ship head toward a rocky shore. The whole situation indicates that there's a way out, and we're not headed the right way. Until enough people on the ship want to turn it round, it won't turn.



EDIT:
One hope for turning this round seems to be a realisation that Britain's unusually hard crash came from the public shared wealth in building societies turned into banks, which then became mismanaged, exploited, defrauded, by the rich and reckless few who had all that power. People who sounded the alarm twenty years ago or more were dismissed as lefties by a Britain rapidly getting more right wing. But regardless of political stances, this has happened, and there is a growing discussion about it coming from the likes of Robert Peston on the BBC, and it may be that the rich few will decide that if the stuff they stand on erodes tot he point where they can't stand on it, then they're better off letting more of it go to settle more securely where it will. They don't trust us, and don't want to share any of it, but I doubt they want to saw the branch they sit on, either. Keith, you mentioned viewpoint changing, and I agree, but I think that as well as allowing us to accept change it also drives it because we act according to what we see. My problem is that Britain's decline suggests that too many people aren't looking. I assume this on the same basis that if I see a guy walking toward an open manhole in the street as if he's walking toward solid empty paving, I assume he has not seen the danger for what it is.

More edit: Going to stop there I think. Lasers are more fun than this.

[Galvonaut]

Sometimes it's the crash that makes us realise what to do. It's not always a bad thing - except for a few maybe. There are a lot of quotes about dealing with adversity - Buddhism is full of allegories pertaining to good versus bad times. They can be one and the same, for permanence seems non existent.

I'm turning my ship around - or rather banking to the left. Certainly from my viewpoint, things are changing for the better but of course there is always extra pressure put on the hull when changing direction. Let's hope we aren't hit by too many waves in the process.

If you feel like you are heading in to the rocks, you have 2 choices, turn around or jump ship! It sounds like you are turning around, what with your own power. Many will jump ship - I think that's what I'm doing to some extent. Entering a sub-culture is an interesting experience and not as mad as where I've come from. Things are working - it's about sharing and helping each other as the prime motive. Maybe that's what life should be about?

Keith

[The_Doctor]

I like that bit about the pressure on the hull when changing direction. Actually to extend the metaphor, even change in direction at constant speed in vaccum and microgravity is an acceleration, demanding energy to do it. But back to human domains, govt does need to listen to people, a LOT more (and in turn people need to know that they should ask better things of govt than some Daily Mail reader's right wing fanstasy agaenda). Insulating themselves in the wheelhouse with what's left of the rations, bellowing at the scared, wet, tired crew is a poor way for leaders to command a ship! And even mutiny didn't mean destruction of the ship. I think all we need is a captain who honours the will of the crew. After all, that's why we have elections and an attempt at democracy. The govt should not fear a 'mob'. No-one wants the ship to dump us all in the drink. Anyway, maybe the whole metaphor falls apart. Britain may be an island, but it's not a ship. We're on the same tectonic plate as most of Europe, so this is surely where our long tern stability lies.

[dnar]

I think it's great how this community can drift a thread off topic so gracefully and keep it interesting. Please keep going, enjoying this thread drift a lot. I am amazed at the experience and stories many here have and are willing to share, what a group.

[Galvonaut]

I think it's great how this community can drift a thread off topic so gracefully and keep it interesting. Please keep going, enjoying this thread drift a lot. I am amazed at the experience and stories many here have and are willing to share, what a group.

It has wandered a bit hasn't it. From my experience though - of pretty severe health problems, both physical and mental, it is this way of thinking that is making a difference to both my health and to my world.

I was always confused as to how children who have the most painful, debilitating health problems still, somehow, put a great big cheeky smile across their faces. We call it brave I think but I think it's more that. I think it is about the flexibility of the mind. The ability to change your perception.

I am now of the mind where, although I care about politics at some level, I don't think that any of my actions in a political direction will make a difference. On the other hand, my actions on a personal level, I hope and believe are far more likely to have lasting political ends - Mighty oaks from little acorns grow.

Keith

[hakzaw1]

No time to read each post here- buffo's advice is spot on- I am in my 8 th year with my cpap and i can honestly say it may have saved my life- and i am not just talking to how it effects your body but how nearly dying while driving asleep was an eye-opener for me(no pun intended)= my car -utility trailer behind with my Beemer on it, glanced off a guardrail 1PM in the afternoon-

I was having problems nodding off at company meetings snored a lot-(yeah even did that once at a meeting!) was tired- all the time- My doctor sent me to UTMB and I did the sleep study- I was slightly worse than Wayne - The CPAP machine did the trick and at least for me - it was not a cure but a way to stay alseep w/o drugs and whith CPAP at least for me it was impossible to snore.

I , like others found it uncomfortable but that passes just like getting used to glasses ETC- now I do not 'feel' right without it- These are NOT cheap machines- but I found that there are a lot of them out there no longer being used. You can guess why.


There are yahoo freecycle groups in many cities here- I placed a wanted ad and was given a used one for free- so all I needed was a new filter- mask and head gear- So i have a back-up CPAP in case my first one quits on me- there is a device 'as seen on TV' that you can do your own sleep study-and mouthpieces you can wear that help one to stop snoring- how well they work I do not know. Taking the study was a PITA and getting used to the CPAP is bothersome but the alternatives are much worse- bad for bodily parts like your heart- bad for anyone who must sleep in the same room and falling asleep while driving is not a good thing.

There is a setting on CPAPs that is determined by your doctor- so if you get one in may not be set best for you- The free one i got was set close enough to suit my needs-

Also I dropped 50 lbs at about the same time as my doctors would not do my total knee replacement until I did. I have kept it off and dropped another 15. Also until i got CPAP I never slept on my back and now I never sleep on my side- I think sleeping on one's side is not as healthy- I have NEVER been able to sleep with my blanket over my face and with CPAP I have no problem doing that.

hak

[dnar]

I got my official results today, extreme sleep apnea. I now have a CPAP machine on 30 day trial, its a top of the line Philips machine with humidifier. Took a 3 hour nap with it today and already feel better. I am amazed I can now sleep with my mouth closed. Looking forward to tonights sleep.

[WookieBoy]

Awesome news dude! Hopefully, that'll be problem sorted.

Sweet dreams!