Scannermax 506s

[The_Doctor]

The drama on this forum hurts my mind. You'd think with such an intelligent lot like yourselves you'd learn to condense your points instead of writing pages of it. I mean what does driving a 5 year old car have to do with how much money you make? It just shows you're frugal, you can still be Lamborghini rich. People are allowed to have contrasting options. Slamming brick after brick of text at them wont change their mind. I want back the 45 minutes of my life I lost reading most of it.

Occupational hazard of PL. These scanners (506) will be worth holding out for though. From what little I know of motors, especially stepper motors, I learned that speed, low power, precision, all depend on exactly the kind of thought and methods Bill's using. Precisely laid coils, fine tolerances, etc. In the past it seems as if many makers decided that it will all come out right in the mix, and with the 506 Bill's gone back to the way a chef does it, get the basic ingredients right, and the mix will more likely take care of itself. It's not so much 'revolutionary' as 'go back and do it right'. Nearly every other maker of cheaper scanners was so desperate to copy and compete that they never did this, and they should have. Bill's been urging them to do it for years apparently. I think that when some big firm came to him and asked him to build half a million over the course of a few years, it gave him the opportunity to do it instead of just talk about it. And like every proper start from basic principles a few really good things get done because they don't conflict with the baggage of an existing method. So he's got some new ones. I think the revolutionary bit is mainly making this possible on a large scale. It's one thing for a big firm to offer the money, but another to actually answer the call. I'd say 'save up', or at least wait till whatever product ends up using the bulk orders, and buy that. I don't know which will come first though. Bill's helping me on this, which I had no expectation of, last I knew we had an impasse where he did Skype and I didn't. But I was asking after price, and saving. Still am. I expect these will waken an interest in me I thought had all but died when I couldn't find anyone willing to show me something succeed where WideMoves failed. Bill figured out what the problem was shortly after I'd almost got there myself by clumsily eliminating all the other possibilities I could think of. As he was the first to convince me, and as he builds scanners, I was already determined on the 506 anyway.

/end more headachy reading stuff. Can't be helped though, only other thing forums do well is pictures and I haven't got any.

[Pangolin]

At the original installation of lasers projecting on the Grand Coulee Dam, they indeed used a "two stage" approach, but it was implemented a bit differently. They actually pivoted an entire pair of G-120 scanners with a large G300-series scanner.

The "two stage" idea is actually done in disc drives today. The main motion is made using the large moving coil actuator, and then small motions are made using piezo-benders toward the end of the arm.

If you think about it, this "two stage" approach is also used in optical drives. The "sled" is moved slowly while actual track-following and eccentricity correction is done using a "galvanometer" which moves the entire lens with several degrees of freedom.

However, I think the simple approach is the best, and that a single set of scanners should be able to do what people need. We calculate that we'd be able to hit 90K with our Saturn 3 scanners with a reasonable aperture. I also believe we should be able to hit 60K with mirrors the size that Norty has if we use a Beryllium Y mirror. (By the way, 60K with 5mm beams is being touted by another manufacturer, but I never believe it until I see it with my own eyes. After all, in the recent past that same manufacturer said 3.8mm beams over wide angles with 60K, but it wound up to be no more than 3mm through 40 degrees...)

All of this is governed by physics. Rotor dynamics and resonances dictate that 60K with big beams requires the use of super-stiff materials such as Beryllum, which has a stiffness-to-weight ratio that is SEVEN TIMES HIGHER than other common materials.

Bill

[TechJunkie]

Thanks Doc.

They sound great, and I have no doubt Bill knows what he is doing. Time/money is my real issue. Am I going to have to save up for 2 months, or 8? If its 8 then I might as well buy the cheap Chinese stuff, and be happy with it.

Best of luck to you Bill. You have wonderful products that bring joy to many people, and you love what you do. You're a very fortunate man.

A piece of advice that was handed down to me was, "Let your friends defend you, because they often do a better job than what we can do ourselves."

[Pangolin]

A piece of advice that was handed down to me was, "Let your friends defend you, because they often do a better job than what we can do ourselves."

Hi TechJunkie,

Thanks for the complements and advice. If you're referring to the lens BS, yes, Adam and Jem likely did a far better job than I did

Please contact me by PM. I'd like to understand your requirements and budget.

Bill

[badger1666]

bill i have one question when can i buy a set ?? and how much are they likely to cost ,if no price has been set yet then a ball park price will do.
i have dt40 pro amps i an use with them, or will it be a case of waiting for the amps that come with them ?
thanks.

[helium]

Badger, this is Bill's answer to the price question........

"Once we have our new amp in hand and have some manufacturing numbers in hand, then we'll present a price for individuals, and then you'll have your answer.

In the mean time I will say that we are committed to delivering a high quality product, with performance not seen in other products, and at a price that is at least as low as what people are currently paying for Chinese scanners."

As far as I know DT40 amps will drive the 506's.

[norty303]

Yes DT amps will work, but require modification involving surface mount soldering.
I suspect the most cost effective way of buying 506's will be to sell the DT40s complete and buy Pangolin scanners and amps all together.
As it is I'm left with spare galvos I have no need for.

[Bradfo69]

Yes but... some people with DT's might want to take those off your hands as back ups. When I first bought smog's projector a couple years ago, it worked for about 15 minutes before a galvo died. They were DT40 pros. I'm not saying that smog had anything to do with that - just a bit of bad luck but, after the trauma of thinking I was going to have to buy a whole set of new scanners, I happened to be given an old galvo by a member to replace it and it's been fine since. Having a spare around isn't a bad idea so, there is still "some" value for them. (Not offering to buy yours at the moment but, I'm gussing you might just find a buyer.)

[dsli_jon]

..But from some of the tone in this thread perhaps I should just open a new one.

..Sorry, Steve.. I tried to help / called for 'trimming some fat' / got ignored.. I guess we just press-on.. I'll shut-up now..

T...What about using a two stage scanning technique?

..Brill-idea, but.. also think about the 'sources' most are working with, these-days, and what each 'bounce' does to divergence / convergence-challenges.. not so 'improving' for, ie: an already 'struggling to stay-tight' design like a 6-up red-array, etc. ...then, you have the 'merger' of those three, and now you add two-more bounces, with two-more galvo-mirs, (unless I am mis-understanding you.. One pair for all 'detail-scanning', one-pair for all 'positioning, in-space' movements..(?) albeit no-doubt, very 'close-quarters' in your scenario.. Perhaps it would be more feasable with an 'Old-skool Ion-beam'... (..pay no mind to the water-truck behind the curtain, there..

Cool-idea, tho.. as-usual..
j

[mixedgas]

Test delayed due to a shipping related intermittent fault in the turbotrack. Its going back to Pangolin. There is NO, REPEAT, NO issue with the 506's themselves.

Steve