Giant Laser Has Produced Nuclear Fusion

[TechJunkie]

Great debate men, but I think you fail to see that an asteroid, solar flair, or natural catastrophe will wipe the planet way before any of these prophecies come to fruition. And that everything previous to that point will mean nothing in the end. As a species we are a plague on this planet. Science, ethics, money, and power mean nothing in nature. They are illusions we created to to generate segregated class based societies. When you segregate classes you create fear, hatred, and discontent. This inevitably leads to war, and death. This is the society we have formed, and live in. The real priorities in life are completely discarded. The only time we will change our self serving priorities is the day when mankind is on the precipice of total extinction. Only then we will, as a people, finally realize we are one.

So I say stop wasting mental energy on what could happen. Que Sera, Sera. We will deal with it when the time comes, just like we always have. Speculative mental masturbation can only rot your mind. No one can know whats really going on, or what will happen in the future. Kick back, crack a beer, and enjoy the show. Thats my philosophy. Because at any hour, day, or year it can all be gone in a flash.

This has been my 4AM pre-slumber rant. Please stay tuned next week for further theories on why I have to pass wind whenever I walk into a supermarket. Do they pump gastric intoxicants in the air, or is it a biological response to the shear magnitude of genetically modified, sugar infused food presented before me? The truth may surprise you..

[The_Doctor]

Great debate men, but I think you fail to see that an asteroid, solar flair, or natural catastrophe will wipe the planet way before any of these prophecies come to fruition. And that everything previous to that point will mean nothing in the end.

That's why I put the emphasis on renewal, and on existence abhorring waste. A whole tree comes from a tiny seed, etc. Redwood forests can only survive apparently if a serious burning happens frequently. Some things need this periodic renewal so badly that apparently total destruction is needed first. So sure, enjoy living, or at least do something, because then it is done, is part of the pattern, part of what can be expressed later even if destruction is extreme.

We don't get to know or care what comes after, but we DO get to shape it. Trying to gauge HOW MUCH we shape it is a route to madness, the scales are incalculable, certainly we can't ever hope to 'monetise' them, but just looking at how nature renews itself and how bacteria will live in the most hostile places we can ever find, is as good an antidote to despair as we can get. So long as we don't think we can own it, that is. That way lies misery as well as madness.

I read recently that there is a new cosmological theory that suggests that in vast empty regions of space there is so great an entropy that there may be nothing to prevent a renewal of the state that originally formed matter that gravitates into new star formation, etc. This may be going on all the time, on scales so huge we can't detect them as more than vague differences in the 'background radiation', and no observer will see much change in it unless they can watch for timespans greater than we can imagine. In 1988 or so I tried writing a science fiction story about a huge nomadic monad, a kind of gestaltic thing based on Fred and Geoffrey Hoyle's 'The Black Cloud' that lives on such scales it used the binary star Capella as a passing clock when it felt like it. It never went beyond one chapter because I couldn't do the ideas justice. The aim had been to imagine a creature that could survive such an extreme renewal with its 'ego' intact. Of course I can't imagine such a thing, it was right that the effort should fail. But it did prepare me for the day when science announced the possibility. What I didn't expect was to live to see that happen. But we can only do what we do, like it matters. That's the only way it actually does matter.

Just as Einstein showed that mass and energy have a combined existence, I think something similar extends to information. Put crudely, mass is to energy as energy (and by *relatively* obvious extension, mass) is to information. Or pattern, as I call it. I don't think patterns exist in stuff so much, I think it's the other way round, stuff exists in pattern. I think that pattern, like the manifestations of energy and mass, has a kind of conservation law. I don't believe in a 'god' as such, but if there is one, that's where to look for it. And anything we do bearing in mind that our acts have reality, and persistence, gives them a kind of permanence as well as transience. If existence did not work this way, I doubt a 'belief in god' would be possible or desirable, but it is, and seems to drive most human activity one way or another, whether we like it or not. I'd say that was a hell of a proof of persistence, and conservation, it's as unavoidable as inertia and all the other things we find in every scale we operate on.

That makes it hard to imagine any 'destruction' ever being total enough to make us totally meaningless.

[TechJunkie]

That makes it hard to imagine any 'destruction' ever being total enough to make us totally meaningless.

I see your point, but when I look at the world, and where its heading I lose faith in that notion. We deserve everything that is coming to us. There is no one so high and mighty that they have not contributed to the downfall in one way, or another. And I'm OK with that. I'll accept what is dealt to me, I always have. I know people have kids and worry about their future, but kids can only inherit what we give to them, and its sad to say they will also contribute to the demise. This is the reason I'm 47 and have no kids. I've also been with a woman for 15 years who shares my same life decisions. If we do plan to have a child we will adopt, and fix someone else's mistake. We will not contribute to the problem.

To be completely honest I think the whole human issue is self serving ego, and nothing else. Ego creates everything negative in the world. It trumps rationality from the brain, and the heart, and has poisoned humanity from the start. Like I mentioned with kids. We worry about how bad there future can be, but we are the ones who put them in that situation. Why? Because we want our own kids, so they can carry our blood, and name. Or more commonly we decide a quick rush of endorphins are a bigger priority than birth control. Thats ego. There are millions of children out there that need help yet 99.9% of people want their own children. Are people really that shallow that they cant love another's child like their own? I also hear people say all the time, "it was an accident, we didnt plan to have a child". Thats the biggest crock of BS I've ever heard. There is no such thing. Birth control has been around forever. You also have the power to pull out at any time. Once again the self serving ego doesnt let this happen. And people wonder why there is a 50% divorce rate, millions of screwed up kids in foster homes/institutions, and over 55 million abortions between 1973-2012. How many before 1973? And this is just in the US.

I'm tired and blabbing, sorry. To answer the quote above, we are already meaningless. We bring nothing to the table for the planet. All we do is consume, manipulate, and destroy. We are the only species on the planet that does this. Mankind can disappear tomorrow and the planet would not skip a beat. The planet does not need us. In fact it would start to improve immediately once we were gone. We are a virus. and nothing else. We claim to be intellectuals, but the fact of the matter is everyday we contribute to killing the one thing that gives us all life. No one is exempt.

So I dont live my life worrying about what catastrophes might happen in the future. I live for today, and try to enjoy as much of it as I can. I keep my world small and do the best I can. If shit hits the fan I'll deal with it, just like everyone else. But I will not waste mental energy contemplating things I cant change, or multiple angles on future scenarios that might happen. Those thoughts will suck the happiness right out of your life.

[planters]

You can't prove me wrong, because Im right

That sounds like a line from Bill Benner and that's one of the few things that turns me off about him. Rather then consider an extremely complex issue and look for threads of value you dismiss this, flippantly. These digital systems are being modified as a tool to enslave. We need to apply the intellectual power of billions of people to use these tools to fight back. I believe that decentralization will be part of that.

I think the point is without wars, human potential is unlimited

It's just as unlimited with them. One of the big mistakes of the elite whether its Marx or Frank Marshal Davis is that they can pic and choose man's characteristics to construct a better world. I'm not going to say that's like playing god because that's too over the top, but it certainly is a fantasy and it does not work.

But after what you've seen maybe you're just thinking that it all looks dimmer than it should since, given the spend? Jaded in increasing age even? I think that's a pattern that scales pretty much for most of us one way or another unless we find something else to make us feel like we did when we were younger. Not easy, hence the need for renewal...

I agree with you here. Remember the old saw "Old and sneaky beats young and strong". Leveraging the wisdom and perspective that comes with age and experience with youthful energy and enthusiasm is a hard balance but very powerful. I work hard every day on that balance and I think I'm doing pretty well.

I'm tired and blabbing, sorry. To answer the quote above, we are already meaningless. We bring nothing to the table for the planet.

I'm hearing way to much "age and experience" and way too little "youthful enthusiasm". The problem with "just tending to my own little garden" is that you loose the wonder of the big picture. You're sounding like a nihilist.

When they were discussing the Constitution of the United States one of the delegates (I can't remember which, but I could look it up) was concerned about the ramifications of a strong central government 10 generations in the future. These men were looking to a future that they would never see, but that might be brighter because of the government they were crafting than all previous social systems. Sure, they made mistakes, but they certainly weren't giving up and assuming man was a hopeless case. Nor, were they trying to remake man to fit their particular preferences.

Great debate men, but I think you fail to see that an asteroid, solar flair, or natural catastrophe will wipe the planet way before any of these prophecies come to fruition.

Actually, I doubt this, but how could either of us know and so I'd rather let this sit

As a species we are a plague on this planet. Science, ethics, money, and power mean nothing in nature

Dude!! Science, ethics, money, and power are intellectual constructs and are a part of man and man is a part of nature. We evolved with this intellect because it was a survival advantage for the individual/community. A gun can be used to murder or to frighten a wolf. It is a tool just like these concepts. Unless you truly think we were seeded on this planet by some malicious alien race or we were the result of divine intervention and Satan really did screw us up (and I am not being allegorical here). Then, I don't see how we can be discussed as being outside of nature.

[planters]

Doc,

I reread your post. I think you should pic up that pen. The story might not come out exactly as you imagine it now; they can sometimes write themselves (at least in part). I have read some pretty lame fiction, SF included and you can clearly express yourself better than some authors. If you like the story there will be others who do as well.

[Stiffler]

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog...ssing-borders/

This is an interesting read on geoarbitrage, and is relevent to some of the topics in this thread....

[Laserman532]

@ planters - My "you can't prove me wrong, because Im right " was absolutely a joke, typed in a joking manner (notice smiley face). My points with BTC is that it is still "fiat" just like the FRN... it is fantom, a game, a ponzi. I studied BtC very carefully and had a plan for mining but came to my senses when I realized I was letting greed and ego drive my thoughts instead of harmony and love. To participate in another elite game was letting them win. Fighting the system was not an option...exiting it was. Keep in mind - BtC requires the internet...if an EMP or Solar Flair knocks out the grid...your receipt is worthless until the internet fires back up. we can discuss TEOTWAWKI theory another time. The one to be concerned with is TEOTGKE - this will be the end of your "money" and you better have some skills to barter with. If you don't hold it..you don't own it.

Tech-junkie - interestingly enough...I agree with you on mostly everything, not going to pick apart anything, we would probably get along if we weren't both assholes

The Doctor - your intellect definitely escapes me - I follow generally what you are saying, but obviously you are more intelligent than I. Maybe I have aged so much that I'm bored with everything and am seeking solutions to greater questions. The LLNL project just drives home the thought that money isn't real...the projects are real, but the money to support that sort of thing over the years isn't real...All of these projects are stimulus projects to supply jobs so people will work so people will pay taxes so governments can have wars to stimulate those industries and the vicious circle continues. Thats why Im content with sitting in a chair, firing up a big old doobie and watching the show and laughing at it all.

This entire thread would have been more fun to discuss in person and with a bottle of Jack Daniels.

[Laserman532]

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog...ssing-borders/

This is an interesting read on geoarbitrage, and is relevent to some of the topics in this thread....

good article, long read...I don't travel and I don't have a lot of "money" so it dosnt apply too much to me....Im content with just holding close my family and working on things inside my circle of influence. You might enjoy Mike Maloney's - The Hidden Secrets of Money - he is a gold bug that explains the history of fiat. I just carry that concept to the stock market. The way we work so hard for "dollars" to put in "banks" and they do what they will with my labor...i find crazy.

[planters]

Laserman,

I saw the face, but I still do not see the humor. Maybe your looking to lighten the flippancy and I appreciate that. You probably read Ron Paul's book "End the Fed" and it does a pretty god job of explaining the problems with fiat currency. However, money and the power it confers remains a problem. Because, well... Ron lost. Even as he explains the Fed wasn't an accident. It does benefit some very powerful people and they are resisting a change to the gold standard. I am not privy to the innermost workings of this cabal, but I am certain that current commodity prices, including gold are completely fallacious. I will take a blind shot here, because no one else has, the market value of gold today,pre apocalypse, should be more like $20K/oz.

Initiating alternative means of commerce that remain out of the control of the established troublemakers undermines their power.

Please think beyond bit-coin. Let's say you wrote some code under an agreement with a video game manufacturer and they payed you in photon$s. You want to download some music or better yet commission an arrangement for your daughter's wedding ( she is still on this planet) and you spend 1/2 your photon$s to hire the composer. I am allowing for all the necessary proxies and encoding. There is no taxation and no penalty if the video game is judged by some bureaucrat as too violent for minors etc. Even if some catastrophe wipes the computers around the world and your money is lost along with the music and the game. The benefit HAD been enjoyed while the system existed.

Don't assume I'm naive. Most money around the world is already electronic and vulnerable. I'm focusing here on the fact that most money is now corrupt and so is the price of metals such as gold. Remember when it was decreed to be worth $35/oz? I'm looking for chinks in the armor of the elite. If 5% of the worlds transactions were through such an independent monetary system then I think there will be room for Galt's Gulch.

[Galvonaut]

What a thoroughly enjoyable thread.

Maybe, our virus-like breeding and population growth, our wars, our pollution, are the reason that we are alive as a species. Could it be that we need massive populations in order to survive catasrophes, whether made by us or not?

Could it be that everything is, because it has to be?

Are we on topic?