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Thread: making your own fog juice?

  1. #11
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    I can find no studies on Glycerin as a fog material. All studies are on the newer Glycols.
    That does not mean it is unsafe, however I'd limit my exposure or use it outdoors.

    I used to work with Chemists and Physicists at a major applied technologies lab. There are often slight variations on molecules, and sometimes what is in the bottle is a little different then the simple explanation, example: It is not always pure, can't exist in a pure state, has a isomer, has additives to stabilize it, and so forth. So I am always cautious to check what is actually in a bottle.

    Most countries have a "Pharmacopia" which is a list of approved recipes for drugs and topical medications. Often the Pharmacopia requires additives to the pure material.
    So one has to check the Pharmacopia to see what is in the drug store chemical.



    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 05-28-2014 at 05:24.
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    10% distilled water: 90% propylene glycol (dense fog)
    40% distilled water: 60% propylene glycol (quick dissipating)
    60% water: 40% propylene glycol (very quick dissipation)
    30% distilled water: 35% dipropylene glycol: 35% triethylene glycol (long-lasting fog)
    30% distilled water: 70% dipropylene glycol (dense fog)

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    http://chemistry.about.com/od/howthi...machines_3.htm
    http://www.bigclive.com/smoke.htm

    This is the composition of Rosco Fog Fluid. no mix percents but it might help http://www.rosco.com/technotes/fog/m..._smoke_sim.pdf


    You have been put on notice of the hazards BUT that does not mean we should hold back information from you.
    Best luck I hope this helps you.

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    Hello folks,

    I second all the sensible comments about impure chemicals and safety, my day job involves this sort of stuff, so I had another look into PG toxicity, it is widely used a carrier in intravenous injections and infusions, and in huge doses it can cause metabolic acidosis as a result of breakdown into lactic acid. A Medline search pulls 199 references, nearly all related to its use as a solvent in toxicology. There is one presumed fatality in a man with schizophrenia who must have drunk a shed load because his blood level was 5g/L, presumably a result of lactic acidosis.

    The only reference I could find to inhaled toxicity is below,


    OBJECTIVES: Propylene glycol (PG) (1-2 propanediol; CAS No 57-55-6) is a low toxicity compound widely used as a food additive, in pharmaceutical preparations, in cosmetics, and in the workplace-for example, water based paints, de-icing fluids, and cooling liquids. Exposure to PG mist may occur from smoke generators in discotheques, theatres, and aviation emergency training. Propylene glycol may cause contact allergy, but there is sparse information on health effects from occupational exposure to PG. METHODS: Non-asthmatic volunteers (n=27) were exposed in an aircraft simulator to PG mist over 1 minute, during realistic training conditions. Geometric mean concentration of PG was 309 mg/m3 (range 176-851 mg/m3), with the highest concentrations in the afternoon. The medical investigation was performed both before and after the exposure (within 15 minutes). It included an estimate of tear film stability break up time, nasal patency by acoustic rhinometry, dynamic spirometry, and a doctor's administered questionnaire on symptoms. RESULTS: After exposure to PG mist for 1 minute tear film stability decreased, ocular and throat symptoms increased, forced expiratory volume in 1 second/forced vital capacity (FEV1/FVC) was slightly reduced, and self rated severity of dyspnoea was slightly increased. No effect was found for nasal patency, vital capacity (VC), FVC, nasal symptoms, dermal symptoms, smell of solvent, or any systemic symptoms. Those exposed to the higher concentrations in the afternoon had a more pronounced increase of throat symptoms, and a more pronounced decrease of tear film stability. In four subjects who reported development of irritative cough during exposure to PG, FEV1 was decreased by 5%, but FEV1 was unchanged among those who did not develop a cough. Those who developed a cough also had an increased perception of mild dyspnoea. CONCLUSION: Short exposure to PG mist from artificial smoke generators may cause acute ocular and upper airway irritation in non-asthmatic subjects. A few may also react with cough and slight airway obstruction.

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    Oh and distilled water and de-ionized water are essentially the same thing for this purpose, just made in different ways to get rid of everything but the water. It's good practice to flush out a hazer with de-ionized water before you put it away for any length of time.

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    Quote " Short exposure to PG mist from artificial smoke generators may cause acute ocular and upper airway irritation in non-asthmatic subjects. A few may also react with cough and slight airway obstruction"

    That works for me. :-)

    Shame we cant find the data for Glycerin. I'm not against the OP making his own fluid, I just dislike some of the potentially unsafe advice on the internet.

    Steve
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    There's nothing of relevance about inhaled glycerol / glycerine I can find on Medline, bunch of stuff about using it as a (safe - seriously!) tobacco additive in rats and that is about it. It is also used as a carrier for intravenous drugs.

    Free access here for anyone interested

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed

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    In fairness, E-cigarettes don't need to heat the fluid to the same temperature that a fogger does. It's just a carrier in the E-cig oil. In a fogger, you have to get it hot enough to boil the water into steam, which provides the pressure to blow the particles out into the room.

    So while glycerin may not be an issue at lower temperatures, once you heat it and it starts to crack (or worse, oxidize), the chemistry (and thus the hazard) may change.

    Adam

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorn View Post
    What are the temperatures the fog machines operate on?
    That varies greatly. Some good ones actually have temperature controllers. The rest have a really, really, hot heating element, with at best, a Klixon switch that cuts the chamber heater off when its too hot. On the later, the chamber is very hot, but if you run a long burst of fog, it cools off quickly. I guess I will have to measure a low cost Antari and find out.

    What I am trying to say is the temperature in the chamber varies quite a bit and the heat distribution is not uniform.

    Steve
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorn View Post
    What are the temperatures the fog machines operate on?
    Hot enough to make me hate life when I accidentally touch part of the tube.
    Freelance Laser Operator in L.A.
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