are video projectors replacing laser projectors for graphics?

[absolom7691]

Because I'm not totally convinced and want to know what is it that I'm missing here,if anything.

There is a lot missing here, in this thread. There is an old school Laserium laserist on this forum and while I strongly disagree with his ethics, I will say he is very correct about one thing: The laserist *IS* a part of the equipment. Sure, you can have software do all of this for you; visualizers and screen saver-esque video projections at the touch of a button. So can everyone else. Any idiot with a Mac or PC can do all of these things. The reason you don't see this much is because it isn't unique. There is no artistry behind it. People don't want a show that looks like something they can watch on their computer while they're smoking a doobie, listening to Digweed. There is nothing special about it. Laser shows are still unique. Even though every DJ has a 123 abc laser from China, the people in the clubs still go "ahhhhhh" when they see it. Even bad laser shows still look better than "fast food" video projections that anyone can create. It's the same reason why we still use pyro (which has been around for a VERY long time) for the "oooooo" and "ahhhh' effect. It beats the hell out of projecting video of flames or fireworks on a screen. Long story short, no, laser projectors are very safe. Laser shows will be around for a very long time.

[absolom7691]

This isn't what the topic is about. It's about technology, not how you think it is used.

If you think laser shows are about the equipment/technology, you are definitely in the wrong forum.

And pyros are bad examples because they are not just visual effects and it's also a 3d effect, while video projectors and laser projectors when used for graphics are both 2d and are both displaying just graphics by themselves. Bad analogy.

Beams are 3d.


Anyway, it sounds like you've made up your mind. I'm out.

[norty303]

Yes, you can replace your laser pj with a video pj for your graphics shows.
I wish you'd put it in such straightforward terms at the start, as that's the first place I've really understood what you're trying to get at.
What I heard was some sort of Chicken Little 'oh no the sky is falling in' alarm that video projectors would be taking over the world.
TBH, I'm not a great fan of laser graphics anyway. It's a poor way of trying to enter into the video domain, aside from the sparkle it can add as a special effect. If I want to look at wire frames, I'd much rather play Elite....

[norty303]

Oh, sorry then. Thanks.

But I'm interested why this isn't obvious anyway?
You seem to have done some homework anyway, in the evidence you are presenting (I haven't watched one of your links yet BTW as I've not been on a decent connection/had the time to do it) and have reached the logical conclusion too.

For me its a case of:
'Can I project patterns/content with a projector that look like a laser?' - Yes
'Is it going to be bright enough on my projection surface?' - Yes
Conclusion, i can use a video PJ to do my laser graphics.

Now, would I want to go out and spend extra money on a video PJ, when i already own a laser that could do the graphics..... probably not. But then, if I wanted to do projections, I sure wouldn't want to try and emulate laser content.

[gashead]

Anyone involved with lasers will eagerly admit that the animation type graphics are nothing more than bad cartoons, at best.

Agreed.

Although my kids like them. (The eldest is 5)

However for me, in my opinion; I'm not much of a fan of Graphics (From a Laser projector) it seems to me to be the "Wrong use" of some very expensive hardware that would really be much better suited to throwing beams about.

We all love Lasers that is certainly a given, but I would imagine it was the look of a "Beam" that inspires this - not some dodgy wireframe graphic ?

In the nicest possible way, Graphic shows suck and I've never seen one that was impressive.

I don't really understand the topic anyway as Laser Projectors have never been in widespread use within the Concert/Production industry for Graphics presentation and now days it's all nasty led walls. ergh.



My 20p.

N.

[norty303]

^^ This


So, are we getting to the conclusion that you may have wanted to initially get into doing graphics/video and chosen the wrong projection medium to begin with?

In which case I would say sell up now, buy the kit you should be using and move forward with inspiring and original video art rather than bashing a square peg into a round hole.

[laserist]

A craftsman doesn't blame his tools. Underneath this discussion is the question, Which tool do I choose to make money? Being successful in business requires understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the equipment you intend to use to get the business done. (It doesn't hurt to understand your tools in Art either!) Video projection can do stunning stuff, and can also reproduce the 90% of everything that defines crap. If what you intend to sell are graphics on the level of complexity of galvo based laser graphics in appropriately sized venues then it's a simple cost calculation assuming you can find customers who agree with your substitution. (Zeiss makes a video projector with a 2,500,000:1 native black for planetariums BTW.) The problem is video projectors are already being used for incredibly complex digital imagery in resolutions that require render farms to accomplish anything in a reasonable amount of time, and some of the the people doing that stuff have resources that you probably won't have anytime soon. So now we have another question, What kind of competition will I face if I make the change from Laser to Video? I suspect this is absolutely the wrong forum for that question.

Norty, a lot of people don't seem to share your view, even in this forum alone, as you can see. But when I ask why I just don't get convincing reasons.
If you want to know why I'm asking this, it's because I've seen some laser shows emulated on a video projector and I'm also going to get one myself for projection mapping projects, and first off I'm wondering why nobody ever told me video projectors could look so decent for projecting "laser, neon"-style graphics, which I think is also what TechJunkie thinks. I've been told quite the opposite actually, that laser graphics are unique and can't be mimicked. I want to know if I'm missing anything. And secondly I want to know if I have any reason to maintain my laser projectors and get new ones if I'm going to get video projectors soon and not be doing beam shows. i.e. do I have any reason to keep them for graphic shows and have separate programs and hardware or is there no need for all this. That's all.

[laserist]

I can scrape the ways on a machine tool by hand to a very high precision, or I could use a surface grinder to get the same precision. Two different tools often have different strengths and weaknesses depending upon their application. I could do a canned version of Laserium using video projectors. It wouldn't be the same, but there are things I could do with the video that I couldn't do with a 6B. (And things with the 6B...) Would it be a wash? No, the shows would be different - I hope they would both be great, but I get the impression you're just looking for good enough. And in my not so humble opinion it's the pursuit of good enough that's the real problem...

If I can use 1 tool to successfully do 2 tasks, why should I also have one more tool which only does one of the tasks (and not as good)? That's what this is about.

And I don't know what rendering time used to be, but today it's not so bad. I wouldn't say render-farm services are expensive either.

[sbk]

If I can use 1 tool to successfully do 2 tasks, why should I also have one more tool which only does one of the tasks (and not as good)? That's what this is about.

I was thinking the same at first when I bought a smartphone, it's cool it's one tool that can call, take pictures, GPS guidance, etc. Then later I bought a DSLR and a dedicated GPS... lol.

[laserist]

And...?

You actually have to read and try to understand the parts that causes you to experience that whole cognitive dissonance thing if you want to play...

nope .

Yeah