Yo... to the lurkers..

[BlueFang]

that's called progress...
the hardware has become a commodity due to china and cost of entry quickly spiraling downwards...
now instead of it being a club for the select few anyone can do it...

I wouldn't really call something that cost > $1k quite a commodity (I think $1k is probably the ballpark of a decent living room projector)... but I agree with your sentiment - the value (value being a rough estimate of utility/dollar) of the hardware is skyrocketing and to me, seems to be far outpacing the development of software.

I here you. My own weakness is software.

I don't have much experience with anything else other than LSX, Ildasos, LaserBoy - but have seen quite a few of the Pangolin Beyond tutorials - and one thing that that all of this software seems to have in common is that they feel stuck with 1990s MFC technology and really poor UI design decisions. I may just be extra sensitive to this area, because it is kinda what I do for a living - but I have yet to see a piece of Laser software that seems to be a "joy" to use. I mean with LSX, it is an extremely capable piece of software. And the stuff it does well, it does really well. However, it can also be extremely frustrating to use.

So hopefully the silver lining in the cost of projectors lowering, is that maybe that will increase the market for software and will enable some of the developers to spend a bit more effort on keeping up with software trends, instead of simply maintaining 10-20 year old technology.

I also am still dreaming of the day where one of the software companies sees the value and return on investment for making something cross-platform. Macs have ethernet ports and USB ports. Macs have up-to-date support for OpenGL - heck, the entire Mac OS relies heavily on OpenGL. So there are no technical excuses. Only business arguments - which given that lasers fall in the "multi-media" market cloud - is a market where Mac OS is already in heavy use.

[logsquared]

things have never been better, just different

Agree %100. Just had a conversation with a good musician buddy today. He was feeling he didnt fit in with "the music kids like today because it is crap". He felt that his art was not recognized or appreciated. I said the same basic thing to him. I also told him not to worry, and do what you love.

For me I love to see the internals of people builds. Sometimes someone will do something really creative and not even realize it. Plus, I just love mechanical things. These are the threads I mostly comment on because I can relate to it the most.

I wish I could see more show creation on PL. The shows I do are mostly live dance events or advertising. My skills at complex shows (IE swami style) are nill. I would love to see more of this. It is really inspiring to see these posts.

To go off what Planters was saying.... More techno nerd shit not related to projectors is always stimulating. (not that he would phrase it like that )

[sugeek]

My next build will be for non-visible lasers and it is still Pat's fault... Well Swami gets blame too xy co2 build here as soon as I get the rest of the parts. At least I now have software for the riya thanks to Ihor. Got to get my ions a psu but 1W ain't nothing now although the beam will beat the shit out of diodes... Next plan fiber couple everything!!!!

[flecom]

You know what I'm talking about and this level of dysfunction has not been a good thing. Your own role has been understandable and probably unavoidable. A simple answer to your question would have avoided a lot of hard feelings. But, think of how this would appeal (not) to a curious visitor (on PL) interested in visiting a planetarium.

meh, it comes in waves, and it's not the worst thing here by far hehe

I wouldn't really call something that cost > $1k quite a commodity (I think $1k is probably the ballpark of a decent living room projector)... but I agree with your sentiment - the value (value being a rough estimate of utility/dollar) of the hardware is skyrocketing and to me, seems to be far outpacing the development of software.

you can get a passable projector for ~$500 from china... a couple years back a passable RGB projector would have cost at least 5-10x as much

[DSOTM1973]

I started my PL experience spending 3 red eye, whiskey sippin'(haha), information gathering, all-nighters after work. I actually hung out in the chat room for those first couple nights asking Swami and a few guys some never ending questions. They were the ones who put my dumbass in my place with loads of useful information of what i was actually getting myself into. I know i'm guilty of not bringing anything new to the table, and starting threads that probably have been covered a few times before. Trust me though, I search as much as i can but sometimes it's just easier for me to have a centralized location to get information regarding something I wanted to know. And sometimes I just hate scrolling through 80 pages of semi off topic chit chat. I bought my first PJ. Now i have something to look at, inside and out, to learn exactly what is happening. On the same note, I have a completely built projector that I can actually use, not a jumbled, half finished mess of wires and frustration. So with that, I may be interested in building my second projector down the road. It will be nice to have something to go off of. Everyone was the new guy at some point, so im thankful something like this exists. If it weren't for this site i wouldn't have my<strike>Laser</strike>CRACK addiction fix in a box. and a special Thank You to Brad and a few others who are always quick to respond to my threads and questions.

[BlueFang]

you can get a passable projector for ~$500 from china... a couple years back a passable RGB projector would have cost at least 5-10x as much

I think there is lots of room for interpretation on what a "passable" projector is. Everyone is probably gonna have their own requirements. For myself, I set the minimum requirements on a projector that had thumbscrew adjustable mirrors and ILDA input. I didn't know enough (and still don't) about the most pleasing wavelengths, divergence, 40kps vs 30kps performance, etc. I just knew that as a somewhat clumsy person, somewhere down the line I was probably gonna need to realign all the lasers. In hindsight, I think this was a great decision, because, the alignment of these things float mysteriously over time.

I think the introduction of low-cost projectors is a GREAT thing. If there is a $500 laser that meets my requirements, that is a GREAT thing. I am just begging for the software to catch up!

[Stuka]

....

I think the introduction of low-cost projectors is a GREAT thing. If there is a $500 laser that meets my requirements, that is a GREAT thing. I am just begging for the software to catch up!

For around that same price, you can get a Pangolin FB3 and QuickShow, which not only provides a LOT of capability for the price, but also a very active content- sharing portal, and an upgrade path to what most would consider the premier laser control software suite (Beyond) available today...

Considering that everything laser is still pretty much a niche market, that really is not a bad price at all for a professional hardware & software combo.

[Lazerjock]

Wow Brad! You've really got them going with this thread.

[Bradfo69]

And 24 hours without a lot of bickering! So far so good.

I had a thought on my drive in to work this morning. I have a project in the works started by Jem that I purchased a couple months ago. It's the mother of all lumia rigs and, quite frankly, I'm scratching my head a little at his design. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it... just that I'm not seeing what the vision was and quite how it's supposed to work. For those looking for a building thread, I thought I'd start one with lots of pictures and open a dialogue on ideas, suggestions, try this - try that, and keep close tabs on the progress with photos and maybe video. I'd really like to complete this with as much care and attention to detail as he started it with. It's a heck of a nice start.

It's already a nice respresentation of PL related parts. Red module from Andy_con, Pangolin VRAD actuators, custom milled parts, DMX board from Dave, I think the drivers came from someone here, etc...

[flecom]

I think there is lots of room for interpretation on what a "passable" projector is. Everyone is probably gonna have their own requirements. For myself, I set the minimum requirements on a projector that had thumbscrew adjustable mirrors and ILDA input. I didn't know enough (and still don't) about the most pleasing wavelengths, divergence, 40kps vs 30kps performance, etc. I just knew that as a somewhat clumsy person, somewhere down the line I was probably gonna need to realign all the lasers. In hindsight, I think this was a great decision, because, the alignment of these things float mysteriously over time.

I think the introduction of low-cost projectors is a GREAT thing. If there is a $500 laser that meets my requirements, that is a GREAT thing. I am just begging for the software to catch up!

man let me tell you, my first "graphics" capable projector was a pair of G120's run my MiniSAX amps that could just barely do 12k, a 5mW TTL green I got off a giant table I bought off DZ and a 100mW 660 red I recovered from a DVD burner with a TTL driver I built... that and $1500+ dollars on LD2k and I was the happiest person alive watching those shows at home...

fast forward to today, you can get a decent RGB projector with 30k scanners for not a lot from china... pangolin QS costs just $500 and uses a USB interface

believe me things are *MUCH* better now

And 24 hours without a lot of bickering!

never fear I is here!