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Thread: Pangolin Quickshow Software--good price.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melgarh View Post
    Short term, they hurt business... long term, they are the source of security innovations and progression.
    China and Russia will stop at nothing to pirate software. They are very good at it. And you are right, I have seen multiple instances where piracy has caused companies who have been selling the same old software version for years to be forced to update it to combat piracy (or risk no longer being able to sell it) and have updated features during that process.

  2. #12
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    Software by definition can be modified. *Nothing* can be done to stop piracy. You can implement protections that will stop the casual person from copying software, and make it difficult or slow down the people with the skillset but then it also becomes a challenge for them.

    At the end of the day, price it right and hopefully the community supports the product.

    Price it lower make up with volume, hopefully?

    You run the executable through a program known as a debugger (Olly Debug is one, IDA Pro is the popular one), protected software will have anti-debugger operations but the people can remove them. In some cases it's a matter of pulling the executable from the wrapper that is protecting it (if it's a commercial solution like ASProtect or something) then fixing changed calls within the program to the wrapper. Sure the program can keep checking but that can be fixed. Like I said, it's all variable, it can always be patched. IF you go bonkers on copy protection stuff eventually it will start to suck for the end user and just punish the legit customers.

    Oh, and more and more people everyday are gaining the skillset. It's in demand for malware reverse engineering which is in demand by the government contractors and computer security companies.

    No I do not have the skillset to do it, and no I wouldn't do it if I could (to laser show software.) One of my other hobbies is arcade machines, and there is a growing issue that these hardware platforms are abandoned in place by the manufacturers, they end support and want the machines to be gone. But the arcade hobbyist hug them and cuddle them and love them, so they want to keep them running so it's not uncommon for them to go to great lengths to crack the protections put in place to thwart upgrades or ?I guess people cloning the entire machine? I really don't know why it's so locked down but it causes problems for the collectors. I have looked into it before, and friends of mine have the skillset and one gave me advice when I was poking around a windows 98 game for another friend who owned 190 legal copies locked to hard drives that were failing. I didn't get far :-)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by telmnstr View Post
    IF you go bonkers on copy protection stuff eventually it will start to suck for the end user and just punish the legit customers.
    you mean like QS/Beyond "expiring" and needing an update every 30 seconds? ...ok, ok maybe 30 seconds is a bit of an exaggeration, but it feels that way lol

    that being said it sucks that they are screwing it up for everyone, if it wasn't for the piracy pangolin wouldn't have to do things like the expiring releases which are annoying... why pirate a $500 box? (which lower dealer pricing available also)

  4. #14
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    Yes, exactly. We've taken a number of measures that are invisible. For example, now the software is compressed, encrypted, surrounded by wrappers, etc. When you run the EXE, it does a number of expansion tricks. And yes, the software attempts to see if it is being debugged, and then does silly things, etc. This has been the case a number of years.

    Most recently we've been forced to have the software only run for a certain number of months (usually 12), then remind you that it's time for an update. In QuickShow 2.8 that has been improved so as to not be so invasive, and in 3.0 it is improved even further.

    We have to do this so that we have the opportunity to work in more and more anti-piracy technologies in each build.

    I really hate this guys, because it means that we are spending a portion of our time -- not creating great software, but making sure we stay in business... I hate that we have to spend this time, and I hate that we have to inconvenience clients.

    If someone has a better idea, believe me I'm all ears! If we can figure out how to eliminate piracy without having to essentially force people to update their software every once in a while, I'd call that a huge win!

    Bill

  5. #15
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    that's why I can't fault you guys, even if I curse endlessly at the laptop every time I see that window

    I hope you are successful in your pursuit of the Chinese knockoffs, maybe if they see it will come back and bite them they might give up? wishful thinking I know

  6. #16
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    Hi Frank, our hope is that you would only "see that window" once. If something's not working right, or can be improved, please get in touch with me so we can address the situation. We don't want our users to curse ;-)

    Regarding the knock-offs, they've really shot themselves in the foot with the hardware. It's going to fail, and then all of the SELLERS will feel pain. It's that, which I hope will be successful in stopping this. Right now, the sellers can claim plausible deniability -- they can pretend "well it looked exactly like QuickShow, so how were we to know". (How were they to know that buying them out of the back of a van wasn't legit? Well...) But once the QS systems bought "out of the back of the van" start failing, and customers get upset, as Ben Franklin supposedly once said "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"

    Bill

  7. #17
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    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    I like fingerprint readers for security. Had them at my last job on any secure IP device. Wickedly hard to tamper with.

    STEVE

  8. #18
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    Hi,
    you can do whatever you want. You cant protect Software using a Dongle, a Fingerprint or something like that. There is always one or more Variables which
    "only" Need to be replaced. Ok, you can make harder but never impossible. The only way in my Eyes is to "Export" Functions to an external Device. This can be
    the DAC but hacking theese is also possible. OK, an 8051 is easyer as an ARM but both is possible.
    My Main Business is working in a Chip Card Company. We are developing our own SmartCard with high Level Encryption Options. This is used as ID Card,
    Driving License, Health Card and so on all over the Globe. Putting Functions in a Device like this is the best way in my Eyes. Using a PCSC SmartCard Reader which is
    also as SIM-Card availible would be one way, connecting this Card as Licencse Card to the CPU via ISP an other way. If someone like to Play with it: www.basiccard.com
    Greetings
    Guido

    www.mylaserpage.de

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post

    If someone has a better idea, believe me I'm all ears! If we can figure out how to eliminate piracy without having to essentially force people to update their software every once in a while, I'd call that a huge win!

    Bill
    I think the big issue with the product is it's not just the software but the hardware that's in the wrong hands and being hacked.

    I don't think it would be that hard to create hardware that could be bricked remotely much like mobile phones can if stolen. It wouldn't be hard to install a fingerprint or other scanner in the FB3 itself (expensive maybe but not hard).

    The trouble as I see it is if the hardware is being cloned, then those features can just be cloned out. When you have both ends, in the wrong hands, ie both hardware and software, it's much easier to alter either or each to match. The only obvious answer as I see it and said elsewhere is to get the software to see the hardware signature and then refuse to run on improper hardware specs. but then you're back to the issue of making the software uneditable.
    Last edited by White-Light; 04-03-2016 at 04:00.

  10. #20
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    Chinese cloned galvos that allowed the hobbyist and general population to have access to things like laser projectors at a reasonable cost. Chinese make lasers that we can finally afford. Without Chinese ripping stuff off Quickshow would probably not even be successful. Think about it. Just an observation.

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