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Thread: Why Pangolin?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by planters View Post
    I have never been called minuscule before, but there you go. But, really...this did happen and if it is rare then that's good, but to have an entire show dependent on this one little piece of hardware (or a comp that is probably more likely to lock up) is still a risk. An extra license seems a little like an extra job contract. The license is not the cause of the problem, it is the "key" and these keys can break. A solution that is timely enough to save a show should be considered.
    Ah the keys can break File corruption?
    What I'd do is have one copy on hand and one on a dropbox or whatever cloud based service so you can always grab it if needed.
    And nah you aren't miniscule planters.. just the likelyness for something like that to happen is so small... a lot of bad luck man

  2. #32
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    Feb 2011
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    I just got off the phone with Justin. I'm not real happy with the result. They need the broken FB3 back before they will transfer the license. Depending on the damage they will repair or replace and either they will cover that cost or I may have to.

    I'm glad I don't do shows for money. It will probably be nearly one week before I will be up and running unless I want to buy a second license as a back up. I don't think so.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
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    Guildford, UK
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    Pangolin have a vice-like grip. They've no need to change or improve their practises with so many large clients with lots of equipment. It's why QS and an FB3 are so cheaply available with so many new lasers, gets you firmly into the ecosystem and then the profits come later with restrictive licensing and amazing prices jumps. Not that there's anything a few annoyed individuals can do about it other than just not use them at all.

    I guess there one can assume they're covering the option that you caused the damage through your own actions, because you're just some joe of course.

    Which is nice, but reminds me I must go watch some more of your excellent videos in my beam correction research.
    Dynamics/EasyLase LC/FD820/RGB 400mW Homebrew w/EMS4ks

  4. #34
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    Jul 2014
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    I'm curious to know if the computer could 'see' the fb3 was connected as an external device, but the software didn't register it. Did you happen to notice?

    Personally never been a fan of dongle licences. Early version of Logic had one and it was super annoying. Have come across many stories of issues with ilok (audio stuff) for example.

  5. #35
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    I do not know. The screen indicated that the unit was not attached, but I did not have long to study it. The FB3, the lasers and the comp were all connected. The laser was on and waiting and then booting the comp and starting Beyond was essentially one step and then the smell. This was on a bench top in the lab so my head was maybe 1/2M from the FB3. You probably wouldn't smell this if the unit was set up for a show. There was no sound and I didn't sit around and study the screen once the smell occurred. I pulled the cords and shut everything down.

  6. #36
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    Jul 2008
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    My momentum is too precisely determined :S
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterpj View Post
    the chance you it would happen is SO miniscule.. its so solid you do not have to be worried at all.
    That's an interesting state of mind. If that were true, none of us would have scanner failure safety systems. After all, a good galvo shouldn't break easily.



    But... everything is bound to break down one day!

    I think, on the license topic, having a license tied to a personal account like an e-mail address is the best option. It prevents the hardware breakdown issues and lost dongle issues. But it requires an internet connection, and we all know internet can be problematic at gigs. But Pangolin already has the feature where you can use their software (forgot which one) for two weeks after you connect a QM device. So I think an internet-based license which activates the software for an extended period of time is the best solution. Another downside though is you need a secure server which is always running...

  7. #37
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    Apr 2006
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    problem is realistically all systems are going to have a fault, either for the user or for pangolin, it's all a compromise... I agree with the QS suggestion, that would very much save your ass if you need to get *something* running no matter what if you have the installer on a USB drive you could just borrow a laptop if you had to... as long as you have one functioning FB3 you can get some output...

    as far as beyond, I am glad the activation isn't web based, since I don't think I have ever had good internet at a gig! dongles get lost and don't work half the time (ex protools etc)... but I am ok with the controller being the dongle... it can sometimes blow up in your face (as happened quite literally to the OP) but it works ok most of the time

    and I am pretty sure most other commercial laser software requires some kind of dongle no? I think LSX does? could be wrong on that one!

    and don't forget you dont *have* to use pangolin... when I got into it, you got pangolin or you went home, now there are many other options that are quite ok... sure none are at the level that beyond is, but that doesn't mean that none of them will ever get there... competition is good for everyone

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Orlando, FL
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    Eric, this is Justin from Pangolin. While I understand your concerns, as you have made this public now, and have brought me into the situation personally, I feel compelled to reply.

    A few points:

    When we spoke on the phone earlier today, none of this frustration was communicated to me. You told me that you have a home built laser, and that one of your FB3QS devices was damaged. You then asked me what would happen with your BEYOND license that was tied to that FB3.

    I then explain, that we can transfer it to a different hardware device, but that we needed the other FB3QS here. The reason being, if we simply send you another BEYOND license for a different FB3, who is to say that the original one was in fact really damaged, and that someone was not simply trying to get a free BEYOND license from Pangolin - This has happened in the past, and as a result, we've had to put policies in place to prevent such things.

    I also believe we were quite gracious in this regard, as we were willing to transfer a BEYOND license to another piece of hardware, and you did not have to pay for the software again. We also stated that we would inspect the damaged FB3QS for free, to see where the issue lies, and that when we found the issue, we would report back to you with options on how to repair or replace this.

    So while I understand your frustration, I do hope you can see our position as well. And if you are not satisfied, you can always pick up the phone can call me directly. That is surely the best way, to get resolution to your issue Eric. Most everyone in the industry knows me well, and knows that I will go above and beyond to make clients happy. We pride ourselves on client support, and it's past of what has made Pangolin such a trusted brand, in the laser industry.

  9. #39
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    Justin called me later and we discussed this issue.

    It is clear the Pangolin is concerned about the potential vulnerability of their licenses. There is no disagreement about Pangolin's aproch to dealing with my particular situation. I do not have a show that is imminent (Christmas has past), but the potential for the "key", as it is currently configured, to restrict legitimate license holders from accessing the software remains a problem. Justin noted that online resources that could address this might be costly and that systems that Pangolin already has to deal with stolen FB3s are not quite the solution for a damaged or unavailable FB3 (but this might be close). He also mentioned that a short term bridge for access to your license might also be a solution until the "key" can be recovered etc. He will be discussing this issue with others at the company and he may have some comments or ideas that come from this.

    I do not doubt that Pangolin wants their customers to be satisfied. Also, I think everyone here knows that I am reasonable and would not have brought this up unless I thought this was a valid concern that extended beyond my own situation, otherwise I would have simply waited to call Pangolin when they opened for business.

  10. #40
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    May 2013
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    Fort Mill, SC
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    Take this with a grain of salt since I am not a Pangolin user currently.

    I like the idea of Beyond having a 7 day grace period when no license can be found. After the grace period the program would stop booting. Then once the license is found the grace period is reset, the program would boot and all would be back to normal. This is how Siemens PLC software works. They have a license manager so the single license key can be moved from computer to computer. The license can basically be transferred to a USB stick and then moved to another computer. I am not saying that Pangolin should go this far. Just that I noticed when we have had to move licenses around at work we are left with a 30 day trial license on the PC that no longer has the valid license. I think 30 days is a little too long, but 7 days would get anyone through a single show or a whole weekend festival if needed. This would also give Pangolin time to have the defective hardware shipped back and evaluated without affecting the profits of the end user. That is of course if the end user has proper redundant hardware available.
    Watching Lasers Since 1981

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