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Thread: Brexit

  1. #121
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    Just for balance, I wish to explain my views:

    1) This was a democratic vote and the people decided. My own view is complicated and mixed
    2) There are more rumours than a US presidential election, which are many in my opinion
    3) The Uk government could gain a lot by sticking to it's commitments
    4) The EU superstate is not in debate, France and Germany wanted an agenda which was not acceptable to the Uk population, hence the vote to exit
    5) Good or bad the decision was given to the Uk population and they voted to leave

    Now we have to deal with the outcome. Again just my opinion, not right or wrong, just the facts

  2. #122
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    I think the belief that the decision was given to the people is fundamentally wrong. They were asked their opinion on the matter.
    I also don't think that going against the majority is going to be as big an issue as Planters suggests. Firstly it was a narrow margin, secondly the way the public have reacted post-brexit I would wager that remain feelings are now greater, regardless of how people voted.
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    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

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  3. #123
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    Adam,

    i am sorry I fundamentally disagree with your comments. the choice was given, and the the choice was made. I also disagree that the people have chnaged their mind. it was not a narrow margin. if the remain group would have "won" i doubt it would be differnet. Maybe people are just "bad losers"?

    I think you mis represent the majority of public opinion and most just accept the decision has been made, right or wrong.

  4. #124
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    This is interesting, in the context of the Chancellors mention of further austerity cuts...

    http://www.centreforwelfarereform.or...c8hPY.facebook
    Frikkin Lasers
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    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  5. #125
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    Don't be sorry. I'm not sorry if I disagree with somebody else's opinion. We're not throwing insults or beating each other up over it. Who's to know who will be right or not?

    I see the bad losers bit all over the place, right next to the WW2 veteran memes and pictures that get wheeled out at these times. It seems to be employed to stop people continuing to debate the issue. Given that so much new info has come to light since the vote, I think it only proper that it continues to be debated.
    My own personal feeling is that proper terms for minimum turnout and minimum margin should have been set. The result would've been more readily accepted I believe.

    I'm purely commentating on what I see going on, I'm amused to see what turn it is going to take next. Certainly, I don't believe it's as clear cut as it seems to some people
    Frikkin Lasers
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    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  6. #126
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    Adam,
    i totally agree that if the terms for minimum turnout and minimum agreement were set before the vote then there would be a lot less margin for debate. a shame as I think this was misleading on both sides. As you say who knows what the outcome will be and I don't bear a grudge regarding anyones opinion. Maybe if the British public, including Scotland were more vocal and engaged before the result then it would have been a more meaningful concensus.

  7. #127
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    See above - the politicians will do what suits them - they don't care about what the people want because the people will do shit all about it
    I too am very cynical, but you can postulate a lot of what ifs. If they were so all powerful then why did they even allow the vote? Or, if they were so convinced they'd win then they sure got that wrong.

    The re-vote will not happen. It is wishful thinking on the part of the undemocratic loosers and is the same corrupt tactic used by the EU leadership to sidestep national elections. The British people rejected that dictatorial style of government.

    I think the belief that the decision was given to the people is fundamentally wrong. They were asked their opinion on the matter.
    We all know that weaseling would not have been suggested if Remain won.

    I would wager that remain feelings are now greater, regardless of how people voted.
    I would take that bet. It's like wagering that gold prices have dropped despite the evidence to the contrary. Regardless of how the people voted? What is this, government by tweet or post?

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    I think the belief that the decision was given to the people is fundamentally wrong. They were asked their opinion on the matter.
    This is what pisses people off. While by law the decision is not mandatory for the government, what's the point of a referendum and what's the point of even calling your country democratic if the decision of the people is going to be ignored if the government doesn't like it? The government exists for the people by the people, their tax money is what keeps it alive yet it has a mind of its own? Er, no.

    Firstly it was a narrow margin
    For all I care it could be 50.001%. Shouldn't matter. What if every time there is a narrow margin a new vote is cast? And what if then there's a very narrow margin in favor if the people who wanted a new vote? Should the other side who has lost this time be able to ask for yet another vote? This is going around circles.

    secondly the way the public have reacted post-brexit I would wager that remain feelings are now greater, regardless of how people voted.
    This is simply treating the people as kids who don't know what they want. This sounds very condescending. You can't just argue that the feelings of people have changed after a referendum or election as an excuse to have another one.
    Would we even be having this conversation of the people chose to stay? I don't think so.

    I like the idea of a European Federation but this whole post-brexit drama and how poorly EU is trying to achieve this goal is just stupid.
    Last edited by neskusen; 06-28-2016 at 15:04.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laserhobbit View Post
    The 2nd vote rumour has shown to be a scam and is now being investigated by the police in the UK. For my mind the Uk is full of either sore losers or bad voters
    Only the 2nd vote rumour ? & ...instead of "either" ...how about BOTH !

    Cheers

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planters
    We all know that weaseling would not have been suggested if Remain won.
    I predicted in advance that we'd hear something from the Leavers if Remain had 'won', although I suspected it might take a different form - corruption of the voting process most likely by 'the man'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Planters
    The re-vote will not happen.
    I also agree on this - well not on the specific initial referendum vote anyway - but we may get a subsequent vote over the degree of in/out. That much has already been discussed as a possibility by commentators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Planters
    Regardless of how the people voted? What is this, government by tweet or post?
    No, but I think you underestimate how many people now feel hookwinked and mislead by the Leave campaign, or simply not fully aware of the implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neskusen
    For all I care it could be 50.001%. Shouldn't matter. What if every time there is a narrow margin a new vote is cast?
    Well, I think I mentioned previously that there is precedent in voting where margins were small and whilst not totally conclusive, a good number did go for a re-vote. I have been trying to save images of these sorts of interesting things as I come across them, but I'll need to try and have a search for this one. It was quite surprising, to me at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neskusen
    This is simply treating the people as kids who don't know what they want. This sounds very condescending. You can't just argue that the feelings of people have changed after a referendum or election as an excuse to have another one.
    Well, it sounds to me as if a proportion at least wanted something other than they voted for, but voted Leave as a protest, or out of ignorance of the implications, or due to being made promises that turned out to be false (or whatever...)
    I'm not sure I've ever argued that we should have another vote. I have suggested that other mechanisms may come into play now that might lead to us not simply coming out as people expect. Time will tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neskusen
    Would we even be having this conversation of the people chose to stay? I don't think so.
    Well, obviously not THIS conversation, probably one from the opposite perspective. I think its condescending to suggest that only one group of humans might feel hard done by in what is essentially a 50/50 split, and the others are all about fair play and sportsmanship.
    Frikkin Lasers
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    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

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