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Thread: Need some suggestions

  1. #1
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    Default Need some suggestions

    I am looking for some suggestions on a couple of topics.

    1. I need a "relatively" lower cost source of Xenon. I have a low flow discharge system based on an argon/helium mix. I would like to add a percentage of xenon, but its cost is prohibitive. My purity requirements are VERY low as in > 90%. Are there any alternate sources that might leverage this low purity requirement?

    2. I am damaging mirrors due to small particles of "invisible" dust that settles on mirrors when they are exposed to high intensity light. I need access to these optics for alignment and exchange and I don't want to lock them up in cumbersome housings. Does anyone have a neat shroud that can be draped over a setup when not accessing the parts, is light, conformable, but not too conformable? Al foil has been my choice, but it knocks over too easily and the reflective quality is dangerous.

  2. #2
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    ... I was securing/storing lenses and mirrors after coating them with some "First Contact" fluid - then peeled the coating away before use.

    But check, if there's some coating on them, what's soluble by Acetone, or it will be removed too ...

    Viktor

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    How about a laminar flow bench. Hepa filter air and blow it over the unit to keep dust and dirt from reaching it. A plastic box over it with a hole to let in the clean air and another to let it out. Flow rate can be near nothing. Just acts as a portable clean room. Or just the plastic box. Walmart snap top

  4. #4
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    I've used disposable "GloveBags" in the past as they are cheap but not that cheap. Makes it easy to inflate the Glovebag with Argon. At work we use laminar hoods and gloveboxes.
    Have to shop around to find the right style of Glovebag, there are many expensive impostors out there.
    !

    I might have looked into this, as I use a fair amount of rare gasses.
    !

    Xenon is recoverable with LN2 and a silica or zeolite sorbent, but its a process, not a remedy. Do you really want to cryopump or cryosorb your pump's waste stream? I'd rather see you learn how to make a hard sealed flashlamp with detachable electrodes, then re-pump as needed. I can help with that. :-) Or is your ablation that destructive to the lamp wall?
    !
    Most cryogenic gas plants dump liquid Xenon back into the air, so if you have a steel mill or other large cryo plant near by... Less then 30% of cryo plants recover their xenon, neon, and krypton. They dump it overboard. That would be the only cheap way. You could condense and distill it from Liquid Air. I'd question your sanity if you tried, however. So prove me wrong.
    !
    Much work is being done on Xe recovery right now. Xenon is expensive now,, because after the cold war, it was cheaper to transfer rare gas purification to plants in the former Soviet Union and Warsaw pack. Then due to war in Ukraine and other misfortunes, and some stock manipulations, that price went through the roof. Your paying a Russian Oligarch in about 30% of cases, as the US cold war plants were taken offline or sold to conglomerates... Often the raw liquid is condensed here, shipped there, purified, and returned here.

    !
    Some very big manufacturing concerns are trying to bring Xenon and Helium production on-line now in the US, as a reaction to world prices shot up due to manipulation. The stupidity of what so called lassiz-faire "actors", aka politicians did with our national Helium reserves is proving to be amazingly stupid long term.. The real fact is they most likely did dump it for their lobbyist friends... The semiconductor manufacturing and excimer laser folks got quite an expensive wakeup a couple of years ago. At least your not after HE3. That became very expensive!
    !

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 08-11-2016 at 09:36.
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  5. #5
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    I have Frst Contact, but I was looking for a protection that will operate while the optics are being used.

    I have never heard of disposable glove bags, but this sounds intriguing. it is sort of a conformable, laminar flow solution. Let me know if you find any leads.

    You are correct that I am not looking to develop a (another) sophisticated industrial process around the home.
    You are correct that "other channel" sources for xenon all end up on exotic Russian web sites.
    You are also correct that I can't use the traditional, sealed flash lamp technology although I would like to be able to construct these. At very high energy, the tubes rapidly build up debris from wall ablation that clouds the envelope. If the same tubes are open to vacuum during the pulse, presumably they pump these debris downstream and remain clear.

  6. #6
    mixedgas's Avatar
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    Xenon flashtubes are filled with ~ 740 torr of Xe. When I need trace Xenon, ie plasma sphere.... playing with gas mixtures in Ion lasers, Penning mixture etc, I place a 1$ flashlamp from Electronic Goldmine or disposable cameras from the mall in a pinch sealed copper tube and crush it.. Pinch-Off tools are amazing things.
    !
    Probably not enough there for you, but at a buck a tube, I'm not complaining.
    !
    The Chinese have cheap Xenon, their gas plants are not a quasi-monopoly like ours are. How you get a D1 from China here, I do not know...

    !
    Cheap Glove Bag...
    !
    https://www.zoro.com/spilfyter-glove...A&gclsrc=aw.ds
    !
    When dust is an issue, I've, in the past, also went to Home Depot, bought 3M Filtrete furnace filters, (Nanofibers rock!) and rammed air from Muffin Fans through them. These simple assemblies remarkably clean the lab air, especially if sat in a corner and ran all day, and even more so if you have a negative ion generator nearby. 4 big muffin fans, one filter, one wooden frame. Works wonders on removing particulate.
    !
    While furnace repair guys can't understand why I'm willing to pay for that expensive filter, my mom's allergies go way down in the winter with Filtrete.
    !

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 08-12-2016 at 14:13.
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    ... some years ago I built a maybe 2x2x2m big enclosed "clean-room" with a cheap plastic greenhouse (sealed at the edges), some fans and stacked micro- and nano-filter-fleece inserted into a cutout in the roof, forcing cleaned air into the box.

    This was clean enough for our microsensor-assembly -- and could be optimized for higher purity by a bigger box around for two-staged filtering and a lock to pass through ...

    Viktor

  8. #8
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    enon flashtubes are filled with ~ 740 torr of Xe. When I need trace Xenon, ie plasma sphere.... playing with gas mixtures in Ion lasers, Penning mixture etc, I place a 1$ flashlamp from Electronic Goldmine or disposable cameras from the mall in a pinch sealed copper tube and crush it.. Pinch-Off tools are amazing things.
    You're right its not enough, but how do you even know if it's xenon? It's China remember. 25% xenon/75% argon? Just sayn'

    I use Filtrete throughout the house. Now, you have me thinking. Maybe a downdraft from an array of muffins and a pair of large HEPA Filtrete filter panels.. Downdraft has been used in surgical suites to isolate a particularly clean area for joint replacements. Yes, I'm going to look at this. Adding a short skirt around the optical table from this filter might augment its effect further without interfering too much with access. VDX's suggestion to continue down to the floor might be good as well on the sides I almost never access.

    Thank you!

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