Drones

[planters]

Thanks, when I have a few more minutes, I'll give a over view of the project. It is not a typical multi copter. Why bother? The mechanical's are easy for me to build, test and design. The "brains" and control components are my weak point. This is just like with the lasers and the need for Pangolin. All the equipment recommendations are VERY helpful.

[buffo]

I still do not understand the the switch over process or on the other hand, the second camera framing method.

The GoPro transmits medium-definition digital video via wifi to the ground (with lag). An analog FPV system transmits low-def (NTSC-quality) video via 5.8 GHz RF to the ground.

Flying is normally done with an analog system to minimize lag. On expensive aerial video platforms, the hi-def camera is on a separate gimbal that can be pointed in any direction. Thus, you need a separate controller to run the camera gimbal, and of course a separate downlink for the digital video.

You can use the wi-fi link from the GoPro to view and adjust the framing of the hi-def video while you are shooting. If the drone needs to be moving during the shot, then you either need two operators, or else you put the bird in hover, take a quick look at the GoPro video and make adjustments to frame the shot, then switch back to the FPV system and fly the route. (Obviously with only one operator you're not going to be able to adjust the gimbal positioning while you are flying FPV on the analog link, but if the route is very slow, you might be able to use the GoPro video feed for piloting and just deal with the lag...)

The bird I am building is quite large and intended to be slow. If the first operator (or only operator) is using an independent camera for FPV then how is the image from the GO Pro sent to the ground for framing.

As above, the GoPro has built-in wifi support. People typically use that to transmit to the ground via a wifi bridge mounted on the bird. (The GoPro probably won't have enough transmit power to reach the ground reliably, as it only puts out 20 mw or so.) At least for the Hero 3 Silver, it supports 802.11 B and G. For the down-link to the ground you can use whatever protocol you want - 802.11 B, G, N, or even Wireless AC... Or you could convert it to analog and then downlink via RF at 900 Mhz, 1.3 Ghz, 2.4 Ghz, or 5.8 Ghz... (this will induce even more lag though)

Alternately, you can mount the GoPro above and slightly behind your main analog FPV camera and set it to record continuously. Then you simply fly your route using the analog FPV feed, knowing that your GoPro is capturing a hi-def version of whatever you see in your goggles and saving it to the microSD card. But you don't have a gimbal, so you need to physically orient the bird to whatever you want to shoot.

I am currently modifying a 250 series racing quad to include a Run-Cam for hi-def recording of the race-route. It will be mounted on top of the quad's frame, up forward, just behind and above my analog FPV camera. I also found a 5.8 GHz transmission cradle that fits the Run-Cam and will down-convert to analog before transmitting the signal, so in theory you could use this rig for FPV flight all by itself. In actuality though, the latency is far too long, but it's fine if you want to give a spare set of goggles to a bystander so they can watch the fun... (The field of view on the Run-Cam is much wider than my standard analog FPV camera, so for a bystander it's a better picture.)

If the GoPro can provide low res video for flight (albeit with some lag) will a duplicate flight video be recorded in HD and stored?

I haven't tried this with my GoPro yet, but it is my understanding that while it is outputting video to the wifi link (albeit at a reduced resolution), it is also recording to the microSD card at the full resolution you set up. But you might want to check yours first to be sure this is the case.

If I go with the 433 MHz control frequency will the presence of the 2.4GHz video output from a WiFi function on the on board camera still interfere with DJI input to the frequency down converter?

Are you asking if 433 Mhz flight control signals will interfere with 2.4 GHz video signals? If that is your question, the answer is no. Those two frequencies are far enough apart and are not even multiples of each other, so you're fine.

But unless you need control well beyond visual range, I question why you would want to use 433 Mhz for flight control... What's wrong with 2.4 GHz spread-spectrum digital for flight control and 5.8 GHz analog for video, with on-board recording of the hi-def video?

Even if you decide that you need full gimbal control on the hi-def camera, rather than down-linking from the GoPro, you could simply mount a cheap 5.8Ghz analog camera on the same mount and link that to a 600 mw transmitter for less than $80...

Adam

PS: With regard to DSMX/DSM2 compatible spread-spectrum flight radios (2.4 GHz "Spektrum" radios, like the DX-6), there is a cheap alternative that will save you about $200. I've been using mine for quite a few months now and I love it. It's called the OrangeRX transmitter, and it's $65 from Hobbyking: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...h_Mode_2_.html

[turbohead]

I started my quadcopter journey using 2.4Ghz (Turnigy 9X standard model). I found that the quadcopter would unexpectedly loose control. I am speculating that it is interference from WiFi routers. I then switched to 433Mhz:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...mpatible_.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Receiver.html

I have found this to be very reliable with excellent (1/2 mile+ range).

Next, I was having issues with consistent video reception from the analog output of the GoPro Hero2 at 5.8Ghz.

So I reconfigured to 2.4Ghz:

https://www.readymaderc.com/store/in...oducts_id=3174

https://www.readymaderc.com/store/in...oducts_id=3708

This was a vast improvement in video quality and a consistent link.

My recommendation is to save your money and apply the above equipment.

Now if you want HD video, you need to spend more money:

https://www.readymaderc.com/store/in...oducts_id=5637

There is a plethora of information at this forum:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php

[NobleGas]

If you think you were suffering inteference on 2.4GHz RC, why did you expect to get better downlink on 2.4GHz? The fact that it worked (i.e. using 2.4GHz for video) tells me it was probably something other than interference.

[planters]

@planters : It seems like you are new into this multicopter event ?

Yes, I am.
I currently have 1/2 a dozen motors and props, various Turnigy 6s batteries, EsC's and a test stand. I have been building CF folding arms and landing gear and testing them (sometimes to destruction...on purpose). With this work, I am starting to know pretty well what I am doing. I am learning (here) what will be needed for control.

I need a recommendation for a flight controller and was assuming it would be a DJI A2. But, it is expensive and if there is an alternative that is reliable and that won't require me to upgrade in multiple steps with all the learning curves each time, I could use that.

Liteglow's above radio from HK will be my choice unless there are other recommendations. I will use the 433MHz conversion either from HK if they ever get it in stock or the Dragonlink V3 from getpv to extend range.

The camera recommendations above are all rich with choices, but this will be a little down the line for now.

I live in a very sparsely populated area, with a mountainous terrain that extends from 500 to 6000 foot elevation ASL. Line of sight can be many miles.

The purpose of this multi rotor is both HD video and for temporarily lofting HF dipoles hundreds of feet above ground level.

Once the motor/propeller combination is nailed down, the arm length will be defined and the basic structure can be finished. The size is approx 2.2M motor to motor. Weight 10Kg.

[White-Light]

There are a lot of choices other than GoPro - cameras such as the Firefly 6S / Q6, Mobius m1 / m2 (the latter new and still a little unstable), GitUp Git 1 / 2, Yi / yi 4K, runcam 2. At least some of those are specifically designed for RC use and some offer arguably better quality than the gopro's. New Hero 5 is out btw.

[planters]

There are a lot of choices other than GoPro

Thanks. I haven't bought that camera yet. I was asking initially because some of the choices I am making now are affected a little by the camera, the appropriate gimbal and the weight of the electronics. I will probably be there in a couple of weeks.

[turbohead]

I need a recommendation for a flight controller and was assuming it would be a DJI A2. But, it is expensive and if there is an alternative that is reliable and that won't require me to upgrade in multiple steps with all the learning curves each time, I could use that.

I have tried several flight controls (CopterControl 3D (CC3D), Sparky, Sparky2, DJI Naza Lite, DJI Naza V2, Ardupilot and Pixhawk). Of the ones I tried, the Ardupilot 2.7 is the most stable and reliable with plenty of features. The DJI Naza controller is also very stable, however, I had a fly away with that controller which has left me with a very bad aftertaste. Loosing a quadcopter is like loosing a pet dog - stomach wrenching. Google "Naza fly away" and you can read multiple sad stories.

The Ardupilot 2.7 (a.k.a.: APM 2.7) is very reasonably prices new and can be found used for about $30.

http://www.ardupilot.co.uk/

The Pixhawk has more I/O ports and is more expensive.

https://store.3dr.com/t/pixhawk

Hope that helps.

[White-Light]

Thanks. I haven't bought that camera yet. I was asking initially because some of the choices I am making now are affected a little by the camera, the appropriate gimbal and the weight of the electronics. I will probably be there in a couple of weeks.

2 good sources of info on cameras:

Dedicated to RC control / FPv etc: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php

Then more about dashcams, but has some very easy to navigate brand based forums / reviews for action cams as well as dedicated dash cams and covers practically every cam of consequence on the market: https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/

[planters]

Has anyone any experience with intelligentUAS?

http://iuas.com/