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Thread: Drones

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFang View Post
    I mean, there is no doubt that these large helis are dangerous - and have caused injuries and even death over the years - but what you see in that video is what these guys do every weekend - and always at sanctioned flying fields and clubs.
    While I know that you are a safe RC pilot, Johnny, I must point out that it's not always "at sanctioned flying fields". In fact, most of the recent accidents (including the fatal near-decapitation in New York a few years ago) have occurred at public parks.

    I get really prickly when other RC pilots feel the need to defend these "professionals" depicted in videos doing dangerous maneuvers with no regard to where it's being done or who is at risk. I don't care how good a pilot thinks he is, there are crashes that can (and will eventually) happen that will be beyond their control. The key is where they might happen and who is at risk, but this point is often lost on many.

    Sure, in this video the only two people at real risk are the pilot and the spotter. Presumably, both of them are well informed of these risks, and are choosing to take them. Also, this is at a designated flying field and during a sanctioned event. Wonderful. I have no issue with that. (Although the rotor ground-strike while inverted is a very dangerous move even so - how far do you think a rotor blade might fly if the hub failed.?.)

    But I've also seen videos from supposed professional fliers (who really should know better) doing stunts like this in a forest, or in a park with non-fliers present. There is a famous one of a guy flying an electric 700 CP in a very small clearing (maybe 75 to 100 feet from one treeline to the other, with overhanging branches) and his clueless buddy (note: not a spotter!) is standing in FRONT of the operator while the bird performs various risky maneuvers just a few feet away from him. Irresponsible doesn't even begin to describe it. One failed servo link and his buddy would have been dead.

    Yet when someone gets called out for posting a video of someone doing something that is clearly irresponsible and totally against IRCHA guidelines they always respond with "But this guy is a pro and he does this all the time!" Yes, and those are the "pros" that have accidents that hurt people. And that makes everyone look bad. Also, when you have an accident with a 700-class Heli and a person, it's going to cause serious bodily harm, if not death. A true professional would never be so reckless.

    Put another way, just because someone has amazing flying skills doesn't mean they are a responsible, professional flyer. You don't get a pass on the rules just because you're good. All the skill in the world won't save your ass if you lose a servo link or break a blade hinge and the damned bird is 5 feet away from you (with the rotor at full rpm!).

    That being said, the folks I've seen fly at SELEM are very aware of safety and would never do these things. We had a long discussion about flying Johnny's 600 class Heli at SELEM back in 2015 before he actually flew it in the field across the street, and both Randy and Chris chimed in on safety issues before we ever actually did the demo. And of course, it was very safe (and also very impressive) and everyone enjoyed it. So I do understand their defense of how they fly.

    But that's not the same for all RC pilots, and it really bugs me when people are so quick to jump to a pilot's defense before considering whether the IRCHA guidelines were really being followed or not...

    Adam (stepping off the soapbox)

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Adam, I must respectfully correct you about a couple of things: first about the incident in New York a couple years ago.

    It ABSOLUTELY occurred at a sanctioned flying field. As a matter of fact, it occurred at the club field of Seaview Rotary Wings - which just so happens to be the field in Brooklyn where I got my start and learned the fundamentals of RC helicopter flight.

    Roman Pirozek Jr. (we called him Junior) - was a friend of mine. I had moved back to North Carolina prior to the accident, but I "grew up" so to speak, learning to fly along side Roman and his father. He was an amazing pilot - he was sponsored by one of the top companies in the world of RC (Align). Roman was also a very safe pilot - and the club he was flying at was very safety minded. There is no way this tragedy should be thought of as anything other than a tragedy - a horrible accident. Not much is known about what exactly happened.

    I think that a lot of the misunderstanding about the location of where it occurred, comes from the fact that, yes indeed the Seaview Rotary Wings field is part of a large public park infrastructure - however the place where the helicopter flying takes place IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC when members are in attendance and flying is taking place. As a matter of fact, if anyone who is not part of the club decides to wonder onto the field while the club is active - or members are on site, the pilot flying will immediately land and someone from the club will politely walk over to the intruder and explain to them that this field is a sanctioned (by the AMA) flying field, and that they should not put themselves in danger when people are flying. I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT - like I said, this was my home club for 3 years. To claim that this proves that flying should not be allowed at public parks - I don't think you can call where he was flying a PUBLIC park - it is land leased by the NY Parks and Rec department to A SANCTIONED RC HELI club - they are part of the AMA - they lease the land from the parks department - I am not sure how else to emphasize how wrong you are about this incident. It is difficult for me think about and write about - and is definitely a key contributor to my "putting down the controller" for a couple of years after it occurred.

    BTW - the field is triangular in shape, and is bordered on two sides by water - so really the only way to get onto the field is to walk through the flight-line - so there is not much of a chance of anyone just casually being at the park and lazily wondering onto the field. Here is a photo of the field to help visualize the setup.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Regarding your second point - I believe you are referring to Tareq Alsaadi - flying his heli "between the palms". I agree that this is not a good way to promote safety for the hobby - however, it must be noted that this is in Dubai, UAE. I think it is safe to say that the culture there is not as safety focused as other cultures around the world - have you seen footage of how they drive? Not only that, but Tareq is royalty in the UAE - so if you mix the crazy culture that is part of the UAE with someone who probably owns half of the places he is flying in - you are gonna get some crazy - not very safe - footage. Does that make it right? No. But it does explain a bit about the difference between a Tareq video and videos you see at fun-flys.

    And lastly - that guy that did a demo flight at SELEM in 2015 - that was me - BlueFang = Johnny with the Logo 600.
    Last edited by BlueFang; 10-05-2016 at 17:30.

  3. #63
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    After reading both these previous points there seems to be little real disagreement about the value of safety and how it can be optimized. There may be some disagreement about the particulars of a specific incident, but that is less important than the fundamental philosophy which will apply again and again, moving forward.


    What I have difficulty understanding is the appeal of the kind of flying demonstrated in the video. I really appreciate the beauty of the machines themselves, the precision of the engineering and the animation that the control electronics permit. I love the new viewpoint that the elevated cameras offer and the immersion that the FPV screen and better, goggles allow. This frenetic whipsaw including the ground strikes demonstrates skill and power, but it is like a martial artist breaking a brick; it is impressive, but it leaves me kinda flat. It gets old real fast.

  4. #64
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by planters View Post
    What I have difficulty understanding is the appeal of the kind of flying demonstrated in the video. I really appreciate the beauty of the machines themselves, the precision of the engineering and the animation that the control electronics permit. I love the new viewpoint that the elevated cameras offer and the immersion that the FPV screen and better, goggles allow. This frenetic whipsaw including the ground strikes demonstrates skill and power, but it is like a martial artist breaking a brick; it is impressive, but it leaves me kinda flat. It gets old real fast.
    I gotta agree with you there... It's great to see an acrobat do his thing but once you've
    seen it you more or less have seen them all. I was really impressed when I saw my first
    3D Heli routine. Now Meh..
    Myself I like to fly slow and more to scale with my planes especially when doing long FPV
    fights. No sense in getting the adrenaline flowing. I like to relax when I fly.
    I tried the quad racing and it's not for me either... May something to do with my age...

    Jerry
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