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Thread: Drones

  1. #1
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    Default Drones

    I could never bring myself to "buy" a drone when it can be designed and built. In the post projector era, drones present a lot of interesting engineering issues with the structure, aerodynamics and power system. Is anyone building or significantly modifying?

    The drone I am building is a pretty simple 8 motor CF frame with a very light (zero payload) disc loading of 4Kg/M^2. This will give a very long flight time and a large payload capacity, but may suffer from poor performance in windy conditions.

    On the control side, I am thinking of converting the 2.4GHz control frequency to 433MHz and keeping the WiFi from a Go Pro 4 operative on 2.4GHz. It is my understanding that these cameras can function both as the low res FPV as well as record the flight at HD. When these functions are assigned to separate cameras, how do you frame the HD video?

  2. #2
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    I have built drones (I like to call them Multicopter) Tricopter, Quadcopter, Hexacopter, and Octocopter. All of them have I build myself for the last 6 years now.
    Usually I never buy complete, I always build it myself. But as it`s more and more common these days, I wonder about buying a RTF soon.

    If you flying 100-800 Meters only, a OEM 2,4ghz futaba radio is all you need.
    Are you doing trips more than 2-3km you need Dragonlink that use 433Mhz and have range more than 40km

    A GoPro is perfect for Recording, a cheap 5volt analog cam is perfect for fpv use.

  3. #3
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    I can help you out with programming Arduino or other boards. I've been thinking about building some light ones that would complement the laser displays (for my next project).

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by planters View Post
    keeping the WiFi from a Go Pro 4 operative on 2.4GHz. It is my understanding that these cameras can function both as the low res FPV as well as record the flight at HD. When these functions are assigned to separate cameras, how do you frame the HD video?
    I would not count on using the GoPro video for FPV flying unless you plan to fly *very* slowly. There is significant latency in the digital video from a GoPro, and for that reason you can't use them for anything that would require rapid control inputs (like FPV racing, for example).

    However, if you main goal is to shoot aerial video and your typical flight pattern consists of lots of hovering or slow, steady movement at altitude to capture interesting shots, then you will probably be OK with using just the digital video feed from the GoPro. I would still use line-of-sight for takeoff and landing though. FPV landings with any latency at all can be quite nerve-racking!

    On larger birds with dual cameras, the FPV system is usually all-analog and typically operates on 5.8 GHz. In advanced systems, one operator flies the bird using the analog system for FPV while a second person operates the camera gimbal for the HD video system.

    However, with a proper flight controller and a stable bird, the pilot could use the analog video to fly the bird into position, then hover while he switches to the gimbal controller to frame the HD video, and then switch *back* to the analog FPV system to fly the desired camera path.

    It sounds like the octo you're designing would likely fall into this category. Given how lightweight (and cheap) the analog 5.8 GHz stuff is these days, if it were my build I'd go with a dual-camera setup.

    Adam

    PS: Disclaimer - Be sure to keep in mind recent FAA regulations governing "Unmanned Aircraft Systems", especially with regard to registration and line-of-sight requirements. (Even though lots of people are ignoring them)

  5. #5
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    On larger birds with dual cameras, the FPV system is usually all-analog and typically operates on 5.8 GHz. In advanced systems, one operator flies the bird using the analog system for FPV while a second person operates the camera gimbal for the HD video system.

    However, with a proper flight controller and a stable bird, the pilot could use the analog video to fly the bird into position, then hover while he switches to the gimbal controller to frame the HD video, and then switch *back* to the analog FPV system to fly the desired camera path.
    I still do not understand the the switch over process or on the other hand, the second camera framing method.

    The bird I am building is quite large and intended to be slow. If the first operator (or only operator) is using an independent camera for FPV then how is the image from the GO Pro sent to the ground for framing. If the GoPro can provide low res video for flight (albeit with some lag) will a duplicate flight video be recorded in HD and stored?

    Are you doing trips more than 2-3km you need Dragonlink that use 433Mhz and have range more than 40km
    If I go with the 433 MHz control frequency will the presence of the 2.4GHz video output from a WiFi function on the on board camera still interfere with DJI input to the frequency down converter?

    PS: Disclaimer - Be sure to keep in mind recent FAA regulations governing "Unmanned Aircraft Systems", especially with regard to registration and line-of-sight requirements. (Even though lots of people are ignoring them)
    Noted

  6. #6
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    You will need an RF transmitter that is HD capable to transmit HD
    quality images to the ground not to mention an HD Receiver.
    Normally you would store the on board HD on the HD camera.
    The FPV camera is used to navigate the shot.

    Jerry
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  7. #7
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    I find it interesting how those of us with a passion for building and creating have gravitated towards multi-rotors.

    I have been building and flying various sizes of quadcopters for over a year. My latest uses a 433Mhz transmitter module on a Turnigy 9x controller. 433Mhz has been very reliable and inexpensive compared to a Futuba controller. I also receive video with very little latency on 2.4Ghz using a GoPro Hero2 camera. 5.8Ghz tends to cut-out at the most inopportune moments while flying FPV.

    If you don't have several 10s of hours flying a multi-copter, I would highly recommend starting buying an inexpensive quadcopter to train with versus destroying several $100s of equipment on a high end vehicle. The Syma X5 is a good choice and very durable. Also, based on several painful experiences, some type of radio beacon tracking device is also highly recommended. I have tried several radio trackers and have found the tBeacon to be the best.

    Keep in mind that operating a radio tracker and RC control on the 70cm (433Mhz) frequency requires a Amateur Radio (HAM) license. The Technical class exam is very easy to pass is is all you need for this frequency.

    Just like lasers, this hobby is also a money pit.
    Last edited by turbohead; 09-22-2016 at 10:17.

  8. #8
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    You will need an RF transmitter that is HD capable to transmit HD
    quality images to the ground not to mention an HD Receiver.
    But, if I am willing to store HD on board then am I able to transmit low res from the HD capable camera for framing? The HD camera would only align if the gimbals held the navigation and the HD camera, fixed, relative to each other.

    Keep in mind that operating a radio tracker and RC control on the 70cm (433Mhz) frequency requires a Amateur Radio (HAM) license. The Technical class exam is very easy to pass is is all you need for this frequency.
    That's right.

    Thanks for the equipment recommendations.

    $100s
    $100's? Ha

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by liteglow View Post
    I have built drones (I like to call them Multicopter) Tricopter, Quadcopter, Hexacopter, and Octocopter.
    Nice to see the terminology correctly used; strictly speaking, a drone is any unmanned aircraft, that includes fixed wing models, helicopters and the towed target drones used by the military, as well as the Reaper etc. Multirotors are just a small part of the plethora of drones.

  10. #10
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleGas View Post
    Nice to see the terminology correctly used; strictly speaking, a drone is any unmanned aircraft, that includes fixed wing models, helicopters and the towed target drones used by the military, as well as the Reaper etc. Multirotors are just a small part of the plethora of drones.
    YES !


    @planters : It seems like you are new into this multicopter event ?

    I can give you some fast points where to start, maybe you know maybe you dont, and maybe it`s to far off your goal...
    anyway.

    First you need a Radio: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Firmware_.html
    This is a 9channel cheap and good radio.

    This use 2,4ghz and are perfect for flying 500-800 meters (with a good antenna you can reach 1km)
    If you want to fly longer (what I not recommend as a beginner) you can buy a DragonLink kit and have unlimited distance with 433Mhz http://www.fpvpro.com/store/dragon-l...omplete-system

    Then you need video RX and TX
    I use 5,8ghz for my 220size quad racers, not the best range flying behind walls\trees etc.. and I use 1,2ghz for my bigger planes when flying longer and behind trees and houses.

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ansmitter.html 600mW 5,8ghz will give you all the range you need to begin with .
    antennas: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...RHCP_SMA_.html remember to use QUALITY antenna!

    And then a receiver for video: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Receiver.html
    I will not point out any monitor\googles to use, that is whatever you feel like BUT it`s important to find a monitor that does NOT give you Blue Screen when bad signal, you want to se snow\blur image and not a blue screen when flying to far away!

    Camera:

    Solution 1:
    You can use a small camera for FPV feed directly to your monitor, and also use a GoPro for filming.

    Solution 2:
    Use ONLY a GoPro that will Record your video in HD to a memory card, and also use GoPro builtin Analog video output directly into your video TX and use that feed to your monitor.
    The only problem using a GoPro as a video feed, is that you must always make sure the battery is at FULL power !! if not your GoPro will shut off and you are blind :P


    Then you need a Controller unit
    There are so many to choose from, I use cheap opensource for my small race quads: http://www.readytoflyquads.com/flip-32-f3 you can find with builtin OSD (showing your battery status real time, height etc.)
    And you have the professional one that I use for my Areal filming, DJI A2, DJI Naza v2, DJI WKM... I reccomend DJI Naza v2 as a very stable and good main unit for Return To Home, and GPS LOCK.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/DJI-Naza-M-V...gAAOSwDk5T5J4g


    Then you need a frame... guess you figure that out yourself what you want. QUAD is often simple and easy to build, octocopter will be double price and more messy.
    I have T-motor and Tiger with SimonK software ESC on my QUAD, 15" props and 8000mAh 4cell Lipo, I fly for 20-30 minutes with a GoPro and a 3 axes gimbal.

    I also use my NEX 5N camera for shooting photos.

    ESC, Motors and props is something you figure out depending on size, total weight of your rig.
    find out total weight, then motor KV, and then figure out how many Amp each motor pull to find the correct ESC. usually 30Amp esc will do fine.


    here is a video of my QUAD I built last year, using it for photos and filming with my GoPro

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCgKPlCuaa4



    Here is a video of my Hexacopter, flying 1km away from my house and 800 meters up. I was sitting at my house flying it for a test

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDyvd98eBmw


    And here is a picture I took 2 days ago using my quad

    Click image for larger version. 

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