My step off the deep end

[ZeroPoint]

Call me crazy but I've been seriously toying with the idea of laser projector manufacturing in the U.S. This is mainly because I would really enjoy being able to use my personally made projectors at shows but I'd also like take a shot at the ever increasing laser market of today. I've been looking over the regulations of laser products and the product report procedures for the CDRH and compared those requirements with the equipment and components that are readily available to hobbyists through this site and others. I've come to the conclusion that it may not be that bad at all really. Everything needed to build a compliant projector is available through hobbyist and professional companies at reasonable prices and the regulations and reporting requirements seem pretty straightforward, albeit lengthy. The only two components I have yet to find a source for are defeatable interlocks for the protective housing and a beam shutter (one compatible with the Stanwax S4i/p board preferably). I assume a defeatable interlock can be something simple of my own design for the box, although if there is a source for a reliable premanufactured design I would consider that as well. The shutter, on the other hand, I would feel much more comfortable purchasing a proven product that meets the reaction time requirements than trying to come up with something myself. Does anyone know of a source for anything like this? I'll contact Rob personally if nothing comes to anyone's mind but figured I'd see what everyone had to say on the matter. Also, if there is anyone already manufacturing projectors in the US that would like to chime in on my lofty venture I would appreciate that too!


Cheers,
Luke

[catalanjo]

OK .......U R CRAZY !

Expanding market means large investments imminent ! ...... = good chance of going bust unless you can find a niche spot in the market!
But good luck anyway ...
Cheers
PS. If you can handle USA bureaucracy why not have a chat with Jors (Atenlasers).
PPS. Look for "rotary solonoides" for shutters.

[ZeroPoint]

I don't ever plan on reaching X-Laser status of mass production, I was thinking more like Slicklaser status making custom projectors for clients or short run projects mainly for myself while offering a few to the public. I just want to be able to legally sell the stuff I make.

I just found Atenlaser on Facebook. I'll be in touch with him.

And I'll start looking into rotary solenoids right now. Thanks for the help!

[buffo]

Just a few thoughts:

1) Forget solenoids (rotary or otherwise) for the shutter. They are LOUD. Remember that the shutter is actually opened and closed many, many times during a typical show. Each time you have "no output", even for the briefest moment, the shutter will close, and then re-open once something is being displayed again. This will be heard as an audible THUNK each time the shutter cycles. Not cool. Also, they don't actuate very fast, which means they can sometimes cut off part of an image that starts to draw before the shutter flag is completely out of the way. I had a projector with an STP-8 driving the shutter (which should have been even faster than a solenoid), and I still suffered through both the excessive noise and the slow actuation for over a year before I finally got smart and upgraded to a GM20. (These days the Pangolin VRAD actuator would be the superior choice, as it is both fast and silent. It is also very affordable.)

2) Manufacturing custom projectors is not difficult. *Supporting* those projectors is both difficult and expensive. Remember that if you ever get hit with a recall, each and every projector you've ever sold will need to be modified, and all that cost is all on you. Likewise, warranty repair costs are also on you. A single failed laser module can easily eat up what little profit margin you may have built-in for a single projector. Consider that you are competing with folks like Walt Meador - aka Lightspace USA - who sells US-legal versions of popular Chinese projectors for literally just a few dollars more than the cost of the non-compliant Chinese versions. So your mark-up is limited. Ask Walt how he makes his money and he'll admit that it's not in sales, but rather in rentals. The sales storefront is actually a loss leader for him.

3) Dealing with the CDRH will suck your will to live. Other manufacturers have been hit with some galacticaly-stupid requirements in recent months. These new requirements have forced at least one manufacturer to completely re-design their interlock system *AND* modify all existing projectors. (Note that their interlock was functionally the same as nearly every other commercial projector.) Thankfully there weren't that many units to modify, but you can see how this could really hurt a small business. The terrible part is that in my opinion (and the combined opinions of just about everyone I've discussed this with), the changes the CDRH demanded were actually *NOT* in the best interest of the end user and ended up making the projector less safe than it would otherwise be. And that doesn't even touch on the inconsistencies regarding CDRH import rules for OEM components and non-compliant hardware.

4) You list your location in New York, so presumably you are an LSO and you already have a laser operator's certificate of competence from the state. This means you also have (or should have) a radiation safety plan. If you thought developing, filing, and keeping up with all that paperwork was a huge pain in the ass, I need to warn you that it pales in comparison to the arduous task of compiling and filing a laser product report, not to mention applying for your manufacturer's variance with the CDRH. Be prepared for multiple re-writes up front. My product report is over 100 pages long for a simple 3 watt solid-state RGB projector and it took 6 months to write. Also, it was prepared with considerable assistance (which cost me dearly) from a commercial laser certification and safety expert.

5) There are other folks in your area who tried the same thing you're contemplating and could not make it work. (Mark Arotsky from CT Lasers comes to mind, but I'm sure you can think of a few more.) If it were me, I'd do everything I could to avoid making the same mistake they did. If you want to file a report for your own stuff - by all means do it. But if you start selling projectors to others, you're taking on a ton of additional exposure (and risk), for what amounts to a very small potential payoff. In my opinion you're better off becoming a dealer for someone else's stuff.

Adam

[ZeroPoint]

Thanks Adam, you make some very good points. This is especially the reason I planned to start off small, mainly just building projectors for myself. I certainly don't plan on quitting my day job. I figured selling a couple projectors here and there would be fairly safe since any potential recalls would only require a handful of projectors. I mainly wanted to pursue this as a means of feeding my hobbyist addiction rather than a means of true income, unless it happened to become more successful than I had planned. I guess it doesn't hurt to try and if it doesn't work out I'll just have to find another method to pay for a fix. Thanks again, and I'll definitely look into the VRAD as well. I do recall reading something about it now that you mention it.a

[ZeroPoint]

Hmm, I hadn't thought much about that either. That's definitely something to take note of.

Do you variance projectors you've personally made? How lengthy is a typical product report? I've heard numbers ranging from 30-100 pages.

[drm916]

weird..i tried to post from my cell phone and ended up deleting my post.

I have product reports from 80-300 pages. But I have some unique set of situations on some of my lasers.

[laserist]

the switch you're looking for has a "cheat interlock"
http://www.alliedelec.com/cherry-f79-64a/70461835/