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Thread: Laser Safety Officer Training? Rockwell Laser Industries

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    Default Laser Safety Officer Training? Rockwell Laser Industries

    This is my first post but I've been studying these forums for months now.

    Along with the ILDA forums. Especially concerning American Laser Law and FDA/CDRH standards and variances.

    And the safety information on Rockwell Laser Industries website.

    I was on their website last night looking for some safety equipment and noticed that they're having their Laser Safety Officer courses right by my home next month.

    My questions are what would be the benefits of taking these types of courses. Will it make it easier for me to obtain CDRH variances for myself and my projectors? Will it make the liability insurance cheaper for the projectors? The course is pretty expensive, so I'm just wondering if it will make my life easier in the long run.

    https://www.rli.com/Training/courses.aspx

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    Hi Andrew,
    .
    I am sure this course is excellent however, I am also sure that it is going to cover far, far, more than you need to know to do entertainment laser shows. My guess is you will spend quite a bit of time covering medical and industrial applications and lasers that you would never use in a light show application. I don't know your level of expertise but, I took a laser safety office course after having been in the hobby for a couple of years and, a good deal of it was over my head. I didn't pass the exam. I took it a year later after having a much better idea of what I was getting into and aced it. I took the course offered by ILDA and taught by Greg Makhov and, it's primary focus is on the light show application. It's a good deal cheaper as well but, not given that many times during the year.
    .
    You don't *need* to have taken an LSO course in order to obtain a variance but, at some point or another, I personally would encourage anyone involved with lasers to consider taking an LSO class. It's a nice certificate to have hanging on your wall and makes you stand out in terms of professionalism.
    .
    There are certain states, New York for example that do require that you have taken LSO training and be registered before doing shows in their state but generally most states have no specific requirement.
    .
    That's my $.03.
    ~Brad
    Last edited by Bradfo69; 03-16-2018 at 13:26.
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    Welcome to the forum! Good to see another Michigan guy here.
    Send me pm if you’d like to chat.
    We’re based out of Ann Arbor and Jackson.

    ...Mike (clickamouse)
    Runs with Lasers

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    If you can do very, very, basic equation solving, you may find the ILDA LSO safety course is better suited.
    ~
    Any laser safety course you can take is beneficial. Will it help you with CDRH, somewhat when you create your product report, in terms of understanding safeguards and practices, and planning. Will it help you with your event insurance... Yes in terms of obtaining it for the first time, but may not lower costs... Will it help you deal with event planners, venues, and local safety inspectors or fire marshals, in some ways VERY Much yes. If you are planning a technology career, take a course.
    ~
    Will you sleep far better and feel safer using lasers in public after a Laser Safety course, yes... Will I sleep better knowing you have taken a course, hell yes...
    ~
    The industrial course will be a bit at odds with our laser show practices, as a variance is a permit to deviate from standard laser safety procedures. If you want to sign up, you may want to see if Rockwell can tailor part of the course for you before signing up. I suspect if your taking it in the Detroit region it will be focused on manufacturing, It may not save you money, but it will make life easier for you in terms of understanding the paperwork and rules.
    ~
    See if you can do the ILDA Course by booking a cheap filght to Orlando and do it in person. ILDA course is much cheaper and will serve you far better. The fellow who wrote the ILDA course used to work closely with or know folks at Rockwell....
    ~
    Steve (ILDA Certified LSO)
    Last edited by mixedgas; 03-16-2018 at 11:51.
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    Bradfo69 Thank you for the advice. I've read it seems like a million of your post at this point. You always have good advice for people. Your post about what to charge for a laser show were particularly useful.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by clickamouse View Post
    Welcome to the forum! Good to see another Michigan guy here.
    Send me pm if you’d like to chat.
    We’re based out of Ann Arbor and Jackson.

    ...Mike (clickamouse)
    Good lord I thought I was the only one. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    If you can do very, very, basic equation solving, you may find the ILDA LSO safety course is better suited.
    ~
    Any laser safety course you can take is beneficial. Will it help you with CDRH, somewhat when you create your product report, in terms of understanding safeguards and practices, and planning. Will it help you with your event insurance... Yes in terms of obtaining it for the first time, but may not lower costs... Will it help you deal with event planners, venues, and local safety inspectors or fire marshals, in some ways VERY Much yes. If you are planning a technology career, take a course.
    ~
    Will you sleep far better and feel safer using lasers in public after a Laser Safety course, yes... Will I sleep better knowing you have taken a course, hell yes...
    ~
    The industrial course will be a bit at odds with our laser show practices, as a variance is a permit to deviate from standard laser safety procedures. If you want to sign up, you may want to see if Rockwell can tailor part of the course for you before signing up. I suspect if your taking it in the Detroit region it will be focused on manufacturing, It may not save you money, but it will make life easier for you in terms of understanding the paperwork and rules.
    ~
    See if you can do the ILDA Course by booking a cheap filght to Orlando and do it in person. ILDA course is much cheaper and will serve you far better. The fellow who wrote the ILDA course used to work closely with or know folks at Rockwell....
    ~
    Steve (ILDA Certified LSO)
    ILDA would be preferred. I'm honestly just trying to be as legit as possible. I've been performing as an insured fire circus artist here in Detroit for almost a decade. The projectors are for a few art projects I have lined up. I'm also a member of the burning man community and I'm set to begin my pyrotechnicians apprenticeship in May. I'm also a CNC tool and die machinist for my day job. So my math skills are pretty solid. And maybe the industrial laser aspects won't be tottally useless.

    The Rockwell Course is $1400 which is awfully steep considering I'm just a hobbyist. Is the ILDA course cheaper? and is there any books I can order to study before I go? I thought the ILDA conference was in Montreal this year?

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    If I recall correctly, the ILDA LSO course runs about $395 but, that may be a member price or, a SELEM price or something. I assure you it's nowhere near $1400 but, I can't say the exact amount. Yes, this years conference is in Montreal and it is usually given there. It will be surrounding the first weekend in November but I don't recall the exact date. It has also been given at SELEM in Newton, NC in mid August in some past years, depending on interest. We generally need about 4 or more people to sign up for Greg to come to SELEM.
    .
    Books to study... a few people have gone that route and it's a similar situation where the books that are out there are good but very technical. I bought a textbook that was around $80 if memory serves correctly but, no it wasn't necessary. The test itself is open book, open internet and so, provided you have a good attention span throughout the day, you should do ok. The key to passing the exam is... knowing HOW to find the answers to the questions. Yes, you should have the right answers but, what Greg is most concerned with that you know where to FIND the answers in the first place.
    .
    And thank you. I read a lot and try to spend a lot of time regurgitating information when people ask questions.
    PM Sent...

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    abebooks.com is your friend, you can get laser safety texts that used to be hundreds of Dollars for nothing.

    Try to buy from within the continental US though, I've had bad luck with any overseas source except the UK.
    A variance is a permit or waiver to deviate from the law and use lasers in public , so keep in mind some things the book says, and how CDRH actually has you do things are a bit different.
    ~
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    ~
    Being a machinist will give you enough math to easily pass the ILDA course. Welcome fellow maker of chips from a lab technician and lab machinist.
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    Laser Warning ILDA LSO class for the win...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew5798 View Post
    I'm honestly just trying to be as legit as possible.
    In that case the ILDA LSO course is more appropriate as it is focused on laser light shows, not just general industrial laser safety. Also it would be a good idea for you to apply for and obtain your laser light show variance from the CDRH.

    The projectors are for a few art projects I have lined up.
    This is really straddling the line with regard to regulatory compliance. It would be best if those projectors were certified and you had your light show variance, especially since these art projects are no doubt going to be open to the general public and there may be some indirect commerce involved. The LSO certification is not strictly required, however. It's more like icing on the cake. But it will give you a better appreciation for the risks involved, and it will also allow you to talk intelligently to anyone in a regulatory capacity who might ask questions about the art.

    I'm also a CNC tool and die machinist for my day job. So my math skills are pretty solid.
    The math in the LSO course is basic algebra and trig. Nothing too difficult, so I'm sure with your background you'll be fine.

    maybe the industrial laser aspects won't be totally useless.
    My understanding of the Rockwell course is that it covers a lot of things that apply to industrial and medical applications that are irrelevant for light show users. (Things like the OSHA lockout-tagout standard, or HIPAA rules on patient information, for example.) The ILDA LSO course gives you an overview of the human eye (so you understand how it can be harmed by a laser) and a brief review of the physics of electromagnetic radiation before diving straight in to the meat of the CDRH regulations with particular emphasis on exposure limits and how to calculate whether or not a given exposure is safe. As such, it is a condensed class, but people I've talked with who have taken both classes all say that the ILDA LSO class is much better.

    The Rockwell Course is $1400 which is awfully steep considering I'm just a hobbyist. Is the ILDA course cheaper?
    ILDA LSO class runs about $500, although we sometimes get a discount when we host the class at SELEM. There are a few people interested in taking the course this year... If we can get 6 people to sign up, we can do the class on Monday, August 13th after SELEM. Check out the SELEM sign-up thread in the meet-and-greet sub-forum for details. Also, here's a link to the ILDA website talking about the LSO course.

    Adam

    PS: As an aside, I urge you to seriously consider attending SELEM in August. Typically we have 50 + laserists attending - with another 20-30 guests - for a week-long event centered around all things laser. It's a great opportunity to meet new people, learn new things, play with cool toys, watch some amazing shows, chat with industry leaders, and just geek out with other like-minded folks in a relaxing environment.

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