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Thread: Fresh meat trying to decide between two similar products for home use.

  1. #21
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    Boston to Laurel Md. is 7 Hours drive (X-laser)
    Boston to Orlando is a Flight. (Kvant via Pangolin,)
    Boston to NY is What, four hours.. (Goldenstar @ Technological Artisans)
    ~
    SELEM is over for the year but ILDA Conference is in Montreal this year.. Or he could go to LDI's Trade Show (Lighting Dimensions International) and really get confused.
    CDRH went after some un-approved importers at LDI last year... So I'm told.
    ~
    Kecked, I thought we were either the "Black Shirt Mafia" or the "Coherent Illuminati" , when did we go Kali style and sign up with the expensive Bohemian Bunch?
    ~
    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 08-13-2018 at 10:33.
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by edison View Post
    Most models like skywriter HPX is a rebranded 520nmlaser. Below a couple of pictures for comparison. Here is the link from 520nmlaser and Xlaser to compare looks:


    http://www.520laser.com/pd.jsp?id=794#_pp=122_479


    http://x-laser.us/wp-content/uploads...et-2018-P2.pdf


    However its worth the extra money to buy from a local reseller if that service is also very good. The majority intends to order directly from the china factory as soon as they know where they can get it cheaper but that is a decision that people can make themselves.
    Not quite. Same housing for the most part, different internal components and interconnects. Some minor housing differences.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by araugh; 08-14-2018 at 06:41.

  3. #23
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    Are you sure of this. Obviously the cases are the same, doesn't mean the scanners are the same. I can't believe Pangolin would sell their Compact 506S scanners to a chinsee knockoff company.

    Plus the scanners would be rated higher if they were the same, afaik

    Quote Originally Posted by Vectorfire View Post
    Jesus, this just fuels my analysis paralysis.
    Double the pricing for a re-brand? That better be some damn good service!

    The whole, black box, tribal knowledge aspect of this industry just doesn't jive well with my anal retentive, engineering based personality.

    Now, I feel like I 'm going to get ripped off no matter what I do. .

  4. #24
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    Pangolin sells scanners in bulk to any company who needs them. They sell also 506 scanners and to hobbiest that are willing to wait for it. For the fast ones you need almost begg for it. The big companies go first as there is more money to be made. They are not the laserindustry "helping" company that they pretend to be. They use hobbyists as betatesters so they don,t need to hire expencive software engineers to test there software .They pay hobbyists in fb3,s and stuff that they already have anyway wich cost hardly nothing for them to take the bugs out. They call that "helping" i call that smart bussiness. Its not an attack by any means its just to keep things real. The same goes for re-branding systems, i,m sure X laser does a quallity check and provide service and warrenty. The problem is that most people think that service and warrenty is free. If you can buy the same product from china why pay more? Well wait untill its broken. If you doing lasershows and you depend on your equipment then its convinient to buy locally so it can be replaced right away. But if your buy a laser as a toy for your bedroom who cares , you will fix it yourself probably. Most of the people that do lasershows have also some technical skills so they buy directly from china. They also don,t have to pay Vat when ordering outside their country. So that saves money too. If you do a good research on systems about 80% is re-branded stuff from china, sometimes the system has a different look so its hard to see if its a goldenstar or Eightonlight for example.



    Vector fire, if you want a good quallity systems from china, contact Able laser:

    http://www.able-laser.com/show.php?id=46


    Its available with build in FB4 and has single mode red so perfect beam and can be ordered with 40kpss scanners. If i would bu anything from china i would go for that one. If you want massive power like 20W + contact me with PM.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PRIME RGB 3000 with FB4-back panel.JPG  

    PRIME RGB 3000 with FB4-front panel.JPG  



    Interested in 6-12W RGB projectors with low divergence? Contact me by PM!

  5. #25
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    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    http://www.able-laser.com/show.php?id=46

    ~
    Its available with build in FB4 and has single mode red so perfect beam and can be ordered with 40kpss scanners. If i would bu anything from china i would go for that one. If you want massive power like 20W + contact me with PM. [/QUOTE]
    ~
    FUN FACT, The Chinese government once upon a time, and maybe still does, hand out designs/grants to senior employees who want to leave their employer and branch out on their own. When you have a growing, highly competitive populace that wants a lifestyle upgrade, you have to do things like that for job creation. Ever wonder why there is a copy of a mediocre copy of a copy of a really good projector design? Now you know.. If that spin off manager is good at their task, they realize further development is needed all the time.
    The trick is avoiding the ones who use tin can scraps and pieces of chewing gum wrappers to aid in overcoming machining errors or poor design (I've seen both materials used as shims)
    ~
    I do admire Vectorfire for trying to sort this out.
    ~
    For the record I buy Goldenstar laser modules, and have acquired NOS Kvant modules from X-laser. I use Cambridge and Pangolin Galvos.
    I just ordered parts to make my own standardized diode drivers as the very cheap copies of hobbyist designs are crap, and I do not want to order from Poland or Russia even though their stuff is very good. Kvant and X-laser have proprietary drivers and Galvo Amps for a reason.

    ~
    Remember shipping parts to China for repairs is difficult, takes forever, and is expensive.
    ~
    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 08-15-2018 at 05:25.
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
    I should have rented the space under my name for advertising.
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  6. #26
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    In the low end market up till 5W you can buy a decent single mode red projector from china. Good brands are Able , and Eightonlight. They use single mode red for their system. As soon as power goes up to 10+ or more its worth building things youself if your being patient. Most people want instant satisfaction and don,t want to save a year from their paycheck to buy something decent or send months in the shed so they buy china crap and toss it away once they have played a bit with it and move to another hobby. For people that doing things bussiness wise its easier to spend money if they play their cards right so they buy more power from china or choose for a know brand like Kvant. You need reliable equipment when having a bussiness where you depend on it so good quallity is a must. China crap or other cheap shit doesn,t work on the long run, not in any bussiness.


    Interested in 6-12W RGB projectors with low divergence? Contact me by PM!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vectorfire View Post
    I have been looking to buy an RGB projector for home/personal use
    I replied to your other thread where you asked about power levels, but I incorrectly assumed you were looking for something to be used in a commercial show environment. If you're just looking for something to look cool in your living room or backyard, then the advice in that other thread really doesn't apply.

    I'm torn between X-Laser and Kvant.
    Both of these manufacturers produce quality projectors. The Kvant Clubmax 2000 and the X-Laser Skywriter HPX are very similar in terms of performance, output power, build quality, and price. You will be happy with either choice. Personally, I'd give the nod to X-Laser because of their excellent warranty and customer support, not to mention their EZ-Variance process. But there are plenty of satisfied Kvant customers out there too.

    A short note about the laser light show variance: most people understand that you must have your variance before you use your laser projector for commercial purposes, but the actual text of the law says that you must have a variance "to introduce the laser into commerce". And the act of buying/selling the projector counts as "introduction into commerce". This means that you, the buyer, are part of that transaction, and thus you need the variance to legally do this.

    It is true that many companies ignore this requirement and get away with it. These days the CDRH is just too busy to do much about it. But if you want to play by the rules, then be sure you get your variance when you buy your projector, even if you only ever plan to use it in your living room.

    I'm going to do a side by side comparison and see price vs feature set who comes out on top.


    It's a shame you couldn't attend SELEM last week. We had examples from both manufacturers set up and running at the event. Also, we had a few people present from Pangolin Laser Systems (they are a dealer for Kvant), and we also had the president of X-Laser (Adam Raugh) present along with their chief engineer (Andrew Berry). You could have discussed your choices with these people at length, and even taken some of the projectors for a "test drive"...

    Adam

  8. #28
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    Thank you to EVERYONE! Both this and the other thread have been extremely eye opening.

    There's significantly more tribal knowledge in this particular industry than most. But as was stated earlier, it's a very, very small industry!

    I feel significantly better armed to make an informed decision than I did even just a week ago. There's still clearly tons more to ingest, but its a good start.

  9. #29
    mixedgas's Avatar
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    Welcome to the:
    https://youtu.be/_UBnhK7pdIE?t=48

    Tribal Dance...


    Steve
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
    I should have rented the space under my name for advertising.
    When I still could have...

  10. #30
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    swamidog is online now Jr. Woodchuckington Janitor III, Esq.
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    i'm pretty fond of this one...



    'cause lori petty and mutant kangaroos...

    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    Welcome to the:
    https://youtu.be/_UBnhK7pdIE?t=48

    Tribal Dance...


    Steve
    suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

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