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Thread: Advice for a novice please

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
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    2

    Default Advice for a novice please

    Please do excuse me as am an absolute newbie -An amateur who tends to do a few things for our 300 member community(has four stage programmes in a year).
    Deal with the PA system /mixer; stage lighting (has eight PAR lights and four moving heads which is managed through QLC+ DMX controlled)- unfortunately the whole thing is done by myself-on my shoulders.
    Suddenly had this fascination for LASER lights - without enquiring much, bought two Chinese units(my impression was that it would not be that difficult and could be controlled by DMX easily - how wrong it turned out to be!!! ) Managed to get a software installed in the same pc that we use for stage lighting(that has QLC+) called BEYOND 4.
    Now the main issue is finances. Not much there to spend on anything else. Would be grateful if anyone could help me with some advice
    1) With the LASER machines(both of them have DMX in/out)and this software and USB to DMX cable, is there anyway I can run /design any LASER shows?
    2) Or is it that I have to spend more(which unfortunately we don't have) to get other accessories.
    Please do advice.
    these are the LASER machines
    - https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...387891597.html
    - https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...472596441.html (they said it's a 3 watt machine- no way to verify for a newbie like me)
    USB to DMX cable - QLC+ runs fine with these - https://www.doremidi.cn/h-pd-38.html

    Thanks
    Paul

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Akron, Ohio USA
    Posts
    2,197

    Default

    That ilda port (25 pin in / out) is a way to control the projector in real-time with analog voltages that directly drive the scanners x y position and modulate the lasers' red green and blue levels. There are a number of different commercial devices designed to produce this set of signals. In general, anything controlled by a computer is called a DAC (for laser display). But there is also a whole community of people who use audio devices to produce these signals.

    Side note: operating a laser projector like that in a public space without proper certifications is illegal in the USA and other places as well.

    .
    Last edited by james; 03-30-2023 at 21:00.
    Creator of LaserBoy!
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
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    2

    Default

    Hi James, thanks a lot for your explanation. My following question might be a stupid one. Forgive my ignorance.
    So from what you mentioned, there is not much I/nor anyone can do with these DMX inputs in these machines. So probably the softwares like Beyond which mention of DMX output and of controlling these LASER lights with DMX might be for a selected group of fixtures(not for these no name Chinese LASER fixtures). But my question is - is there anyway these BEYOND generated digital signals from a pc can be used to control LASER lights through DMX signals(we do this in a moving head through various channels to control the rotation of the head/movement of gobos) without any intermediary box?
    Thanks


    Need to read about the safely implications.
    If at any time, this was successful, the plan is to concentrate the LASER onto a wall - ie the back of stage with the audience sitting at least thirty metres away from the reflecting surface.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Akron, Ohio USA
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    2,197

    Default

    I don't know that much about DMX, but I would guess it can be used to trigger animations that are stored inside the laser projector on an SD memory card. You might be able to put your own designs on that card, but that's not the same as having direct control of the galvos and color mods. If you plan to project onto a screen, then you will want to be able to design graphics, logos, text, etc... The generic laser art file format is also called ilda and has the extension .ild. Most laser applications can at least import this format. Graphics are usually designed and made well before they are displayed. For this you need a good creation and editing environment.

    See below.
    Creator of LaserBoy!
    LaserBoy is free and runs in Windows, MacOS and Linux (including Raspberry Pi!).
    Download LaserBoy!
    YouTube Tutorials
    Ask me about my LaserBoy Correction Amp Kit for sale!
    All software has a learning curve usually proportional to its capabilities and unique features. Pointing with a mouse is in no way easier than tapping a key.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Charleston, SC
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    2,147,489,446

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    Hi Paul; welcome to PhotonLexicon!

    Pangolin's BEYOND software is primarily designed to control laser projectors using one of Pangolin's dedicated laser controllers. These controllers are hardware devices that connect to the host computer and convert the digital signals from the software into analog signals that the laser projector requires. These Pangolin controllers cost between $550 and $1000, depending on options.

    BEYOND is Pangolin's flagship software product; unlike Quickshow, which is included for free with the purchase of a Pangolin controller, BEYOND must be purchased separately. While BEYOND may be more expensive than other software options, it is extremely powerful. Note that BEYOND can also be used to send DMX commands to lighting fixtures, hazers, laser projectors, or any other devices that support DMX input for control, assuming you have a DMX output device installed on the host computer.

    However, most laser projectors that support DMX input will only allow you to select from a limited set of pre-recorded animations that are stored on a memory card in the projector. Thus, DMX control is often very limiting when it comes to laser projectors. (The one notable exception to this rule is the Mercury controller that X-Laser includes in many of their projectors; Mercury is designed to be used with a professional DMX lighting console and permits the user to create seemingly endless effects using their "builder" interface.)

    As James explained above, the way to unlock all the abilities of a laser projector is to use a dedicated laser controller and software package to control the lasers and the scanners directly. The International Laser Display Association (ILDA) has published a standard for connecting these signals to a projector, and nearly all projectors support this standard. A standard ILDA port is a DB-25 connector. You use a 25-pin cable to connect the port on the back of the projector to your ILDA controller. Then the controller connects to your host computer, either with a USB cable, or a network cable, or even by plugging into a PCI slot on the motherboard.

    This image shows the various signals that are sent to the projector via the ILDA port:Click image for larger version. 

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    There are lots of options for laser controllers and laser show software, including some freeware software options and home-brew controller options. (Example: you can modify an 8-channel USB sound card to function as a laser controller for about $50 in parts, and Jame's Laserboy software is completely free.) There are also commercially-available controllers that cost less than $300, and commercial software packages for laser show control that start at $49. It's best to spend some time researching your options before you buy anything though, as you don't want to get stuck with something that won't meet your needs.

    Finally, James already mentioned the legal issue, but it bears repeating: Most countries have strict requirements for people who operate laser projectors in public. You did not fill out your profile information, so we don't know where in the world you are, but it's very likely that you live in one of the countries where these rules apply. People here on the forum are willing to help guide you through these regulations, but they can't do much until they know where you are located.

    Another plus to adding your location to your profile is that it lets other people in your area know that you are close. Many communities host "Laser Enthusiast Meetings" from time to time; if one of these events happens to be in your area, you can learn a great deal by attending the event and chatting up the other laserists.

    Adam

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