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Thread: Hello All, Laser Question/Help

  1. #11
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    ... deciding on your images, you have a 10kpps system -- driving it faster will distort the image, so higher distance is the only way to make the scan area bigger ...

    Viktor
    Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - https://reprap.org/forum/list.php?426
    Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - https://reprap.org/forum/list.php?425

  2. #12
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    While I understand it looks this way now, I assure you it worked without issue before at full scan angle. I will try to post some photos earlier, but judging by all of your replies, it looks as though I have damaged the galvos. I guess i will have two options, hope the seller can repair, or buy a new set of galvos which I would need input from you all on as well.

  3. #13
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    Here are two videos of how it was performing before, the shorter one, you can hear the galvos crying if you listen closely lol. The longer one was set to music hence the pausing.

    https://youtu.be/YBUaN8cc_F4
    https://youtu.be/k7ox4IWWvcw

  4. #14
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    Those galvos sound like cheap servos. Color looks ok so just bite the bullet and buy some good scanners. I suggest the pangolin 506 with digital amps. You will never be sorry. They will cost twice the cheap pt40 and perform flawlessly for years. In the end they might even be cheaper as you likely will wear out a set of the cheap ones.

    the beams you are running should be absolutely fine with the cheap scanners you have. Unless you must do graphics 12k is plenty for lines boxes and circles.

    welcome to PL. I hope you will stay around after you get sorted. Come meet us at our yearly pilgrimage to North Carolina. There are other meets world wide. We love to help.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kecked View Post
    Those galvos sound like cheap servos. Color looks ok so just bite the bullet and buy some good scanners. I suggest the pangolin 506 with digital amps. You will never be sorry. They will cost twice the cheap pt40 and perform flawlessly for years. In the end they might even be cheaper as you likely will wear out a set of the cheap ones.

    the beams you are running should be absolutely fine with the cheap scanners you have. Unless you must do graphics 12k is plenty for lines boxes and circles.

    welcome to PL. I hope you will stay around after you get sorted. Come meet us at our yearly pilgrimage to North Carolina. There are other meets world wide. We love to help.
    Hi Kecked! If I do choose to go this route, is it just a set of galvos and amp and they would interface with the current electronics already in the laser (ILDA port, scan angle knob, and control interface) or are their additional setup that would have to happen? Also, not sure if this is an easy question to answer, but would these galvos mount to the same place as old ones? I have soldering skills, voltmeter, etc, so I am capable of some tinkering lol.

    Thanks

    Is there a post on the forum about the meetup in NC? I do plan to stick around!

  6. #16
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    Look up SELEM on the forum for the meet up. Next up in August. It’s a lot of fun!

    well for now you have a black box. Without seeing inside it’s hard to say about electronics but generally the lasers and galvos are separate electronically. You likely would want a bigger power supply for new galvos. You then need to consider if your case can hold it all. Likely it won’t as you will need some better heat sinking BUT. If you just get better cheap galvos like pt40 it might not need different supply and likely will fit. For your beam this is really fine. My idea of 506 scanners would put the scanner in a whole different class but require a bit of rework.

    dkumpula will likely reply. Listen to what he tells you. He’s an amazing diy builder. He built mine!

  7. #17
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    So, it looks as though I may have lucked out with the seller and they are sending me new galvos to replace. I will post some pictures of the insides tonight to maybe get some feedback on an upgrade down the road to some better galvos!

    I also want to make sure I do not overdrive in the future so I may post some more questions on how to ensure I do not do this!

    Thanks again all!

  8. #18
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    Glad to hear that the seller is sending you new scanners. That's a good start.

    Based on the pictures you posted, I agree with Viktor: Your scanners are probably rated for between 10K and 12K speeds. Pushing them beyond that is going to cause image distortion, excessive heat, and eventual failure.

    To answer your other question, yes, scanning wider absolutely pushes the scanners harder. For any given speed, wider is harder and narrower is easier. If you can move the projector back further from the wall to get the image size large enough for your purpose, that is always going to be the better route vs increasing the scan angle in the software.

    The speed rating for scanners is tricky to wrap your head around, as it involved a few different parameters. In summary though, if a scanner is capable of "30Kpps", that means that they can scan the ILDA test pattern at a speed of 30,000 points per second at a minimum of 8 degrees scan angle and have the test pattern look correct. ("Looking correct" means the circle is perfectly round and is just touching the sides of the inner square, there are bright dots at the corners of that inner square with no overshoot or undershoot, and all the other lines in the image are straight with no distortion.) Some 30K scanners may be able to run the ILDA test pattern at more than 8 degrees. If so, that's great! But the requirement is a minimum of 8 degrees.

    As you've already seen though, 8 degrees isn't very wide. The ILDA test pattern is a very demanding pattern and it is not designed to be scanned at full width. (If you try to do so you will rapidly overheat your scanners and they will squeal like hell. The image will look awful as well.) So while you may be able to scan *some* images at full width, the 30K speed designation really only guarantees that you can do a reasonably complex image at 8 degrees. As you go beyond 8 degrees you need to watch the image and listen to your scanners so you can detect when you've gone beyond the scanner's abilities.

    When you get the new scanners installed your projector should be back to the way it was when you first got it. However, remember that we've pretty much determined that 10 to 12K is about the limit. If you want to go beyond that, you'll need to install faster scanners. (This might be something you'll want to do down the road...) Then too, from the video you posted it looks like you had your scan angle (size adjustment in software) set to pretty much the maximum. You'll want to dial that back a good bit as well, in addition to lowering the scan speed, if you want to save your scanners.

    The Compact 506 scanners that Mark recommended are indeed very nice, but given that they cost more than the retail price of your entire projector I'm not sure that they are the best choice right now. If I were you I would start with a set of PT-30's (~$250, if not less). But again, that's assuming you decide to upgrade in the first place. First priority will be to install the replacement scanners and see how that looks.

    Adam

    PS: Thanks for adding your location to your profile. You are very close to one of our senior members who has a *ton* of equipment: Bradfo69. He is currently a member of the ILDA board of directors, and he's been doing laser shows commercially for quite a number of years now. If you get a chance to meet up with him for coffee or lunch, definitely do it!

  9. #19
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    Bradfo69 is offline Pending BST Forum Purchases: $47,127,283.53
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    Welcome to the forum! West Chester, PA is close to me since I'm Delaware born and raised. (I used to be closer - 6 miles or so but, I moved to Elkton from north Wilmington earlier this year so, it's now a mild hike but certainly not bad. I also lived in Kennett Square for a few years.) Yes... you absolutely want to consider SELEM in August. More on that later. But I'm happy to help you in person if needed and, can certainly fan the flames to your growing addiction. I have a ridiculous amount of laser gear and, a venue to run them in at my disposal. Glad to hear they're sending you some replacement scanners. All good advice from everyone here and I know most of them well.
    PM Sent...

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffo View Post
    Glad to hear that the seller is sending you new scanners. That's a good start.

    Based on the pictures you posted, I agree with Viktor: Your scanners are probably rated for between 10K and 12K speeds. Pushing them beyond that is going to cause image distortion, excessive heat, and eventual failure.

    To answer your other question, yes, scanning wider absolutely pushes the scanners harder. For any given speed, wider is harder and narrower is easier. If you can move the projector back further from the wall to get the image size large enough for your purpose, that is always going to be the better route vs increasing the scan angle in the software.

    The speed rating for scanners is tricky to wrap your head around, as it involved a few different parameters. In summary though, if a scanner is capable of "30Kpps", that means that they can scan the ILDA test pattern at a speed of 30,000 points per second at a minimum of 8 degrees scan angle and have the test pattern look correct. ("Looking correct" means the circle is perfectly round and is just touching the sides of the inner square, there are bright dots at the corners of that inner square with no overshoot or undershoot, and all the other lines in the image are straight with no distortion.) Some 30K scanners may be able to run the ILDA test pattern at more than 8 degrees. If so, that's great! But the requirement is a minimum of 8 degrees.

    As you've already seen though, 8 degrees isn't very wide. The ILDA test pattern is a very demanding pattern and it is not designed to be scanned at full width. (If you try to do so you will rapidly overheat your scanners and they will squeal like hell. The image will look awful as well.) So while you may be able to scan *some* images at full width, the 30K speed designation really only guarantees that you can do a reasonably complex image at 8 degrees. As you go beyond 8 degrees you need to watch the image and listen to your scanners so you can detect when you've gone beyond the scanner's abilities.

    When you get the new scanners installed your projector should be back to the way it was when you first got it. However, remember that we've pretty much determined that 10 to 12K is about the limit. If you want to go beyond that, you'll need to install faster scanners. (This might be something you'll want to do down the road...) Then too, from the video you posted it looks like you had your scan angle (size adjustment in software) set to pretty much the maximum. You'll want to dial that back a good bit as well, in addition to lowering the scan speed, if you want to save your scanners.

    The Compact 506 scanners that Mark recommended are indeed very nice, but given that they cost more than the retail price of your entire projector I'm not sure that they are the best choice right now. If I were you I would start with a set of PT-30's (~$250, if not less). But again, that's assuming you decide to upgrade in the first place. First priority will be to install the replacement scanners and see how that looks.

    Adam

    PS: Thanks for adding your location to your profile. You are very close to one of our senior members who has a *ton* of equipment: Bradfo69. He is currently a member of the ILDA board of directors, and he's been doing laser shows commercially for quite a number of years now. If you get a chance to meet up with him for coffee or lunch, definitely do it!
    That sounds like the route I would go with PT-30's as to not put too much of a hole in my wallet! Of course, that is after the replacement scanners and maybe a little down the road. I still have to get the other scanners, hopefully they come fast.

    I was actually question if I was measuring correctly when setting it to and 8 degree scan angle, looked a little small!

    As far as setting the scan angle, I did not know that the knob for this adjustment was actually working the galvos harder. In retrospect, this should have clicked because I could hear the galvos get louder. as the size increase which I presume is them moving more back and forth. I thought it was moving a lens of some sort but I am sure that would have added distortion as well as made the beam size thicker I presume.

    Question, in Modulaser (I find this program very fun!) the settings in the picture I attached. Where it has the points changer, would this be equivalent to PPS? I just want to know if setting this too high can cause more damage, if you all know? I understand the concept of before and after blanking as far as how it changes the scan at least.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bradfo69 View Post
    Welcome to the forum! West Chester, PA is close to me since I'm Delaware born and raised. (I used to be closer - 6 miles or so but, I moved to Elkton from north Wilmington earlier this year so, it's now a mild hike but certainly not bad. I also lived in Kennett Square for a few years.) Yes... you absolutely want to consider SELEM in August. More on that later. But I'm happy to help you in person if needed and, can certainly fan the flames to your growing addiction. I have a ridiculous amount of laser gear and, a venue to run them in at my disposal. Glad to hear they're sending you some replacement scanners. All good advice from everyone here and I know most of them well.


    Hey! Awesome, you are really close. My Dad is from Delaware actually and I work in Newark, DE for :cough: Comcast . Been with them for 13 years now, almost 3 of those years in Delaware. Its funny because I always have loved lasers but never realized that there were ways of getting an actual "laser machine". I do know it was cheap and I may have been better off buying used "good gear", but I have been hooked at this point. My girlfriend might not like it however . I have been messing around with Touchdesigner and the fun you can have in there with the Helio DAC and a laser! I have been messing around using the Xbox kinect to control the laser with your hands. Fun stuff not too steep of a learning curve.

    Again, thank you all for your replies!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails modulaser.jpg  


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