New format for laser shows - time to upgrade the show production

[absolom7691]

No one uses it because no one uses it.

Why is this so hard to understand???? That is how formats, products, etc die. I am not saying ild is intrinsically better or that wav is intrinsically worse because of popularity. It's about application and apparent value. If wav is not used by anyone, it is not better to use from a practical standpoint. Because of its lack of popularity, it's more difficult to use because no software supports it and there is little to no community help or support for it. So now, why should people use it? "Because it's technically better and has more options available" means shit if the current format doesn't have any apparent limitation and the use of wav is an uphill battle because it just ISN'T SUPPORTED. If an ild were dreadful to use then sure, the benefits of switching to wav would make it a no brainer, but ild isn't so broken that people are dying for something else.

[james]

People are using it and lots of other stuff you don't know about.

You don't have a use for it.

You probably never will because of the software YOU use.

Other creative people find utility where it is.

I'm a software developer, not a consumer.

We are not the same.

Becha there are a lot of people out there who are glad I didn't say fuckit. No one's ever gonna use this.


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[absolom7691]

People are using it and lots of other stuff you don't know about.

Quite possibly. In the 10+ years this has been a thing, I have yet to see any of it. I have watched tons of Chris's shows on YouTube and hope to see them at some point at SELEM. I have been to Laserium many times and have experienced the masters of analog doing what they do best. Mike Dunn's shows quite literally got my back into lasers after I in the 90's. Amazing content, amazing artists, zero waves. So yeah, I don't know about it because they haven't made a mark.

You don't have a use for it.

Irrelevant. You keep swerving. But you're correct, I don't have a use for it. Never will. 99% of laserists don't have a use for it. Why, because ild meets their needs along with have VAST amounts of support.

Other creative people find utility where it is.

Maybe but it'll be difficult for them to share their work if the format they share is unsupported, save for kludgeware.

I'm a software developer, not a consumer.

We are not the same.

That air up there must be thin. I imagine the view must be great when you look down on all the little people. The common people.

Becha there are a lot of people out there who are glad I didn't say fuckit. No one's ever gonna use this.

I bet you're right and I've never once said anything but positive that you did bring a free solution to people that have little to no budget. It is, however, not the only solution, not the easiest solution, and in some cases, could be a solution that drives people away from the art because of it's difficulty. And FYI, they sure as shit don't use the free solution because of waves and all of the amazing possibilities. They use it because the price is right.

[james]

I figured that would get a response.

So why is it so difficult for you to have a conversation about the merits of any technical issue, like a file format?

Data structures don't care about your feelings.

And FYI, they sure as shit don't use the free solution because of waves and all of the amazing possibilities. They use it because the price is right.

How would you know?

A very large portion of its functionality came from working with other people to add features they needed.

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[absolom7691]

So why is it so difficult for you to have a conversation about the merits of any technical issue, like a file format?

Honestly, I no longer care. I don't wish to continue this argument so, I will kindly show myself out of the thread. Good luck and maybe in another 10 years, 1 or maybe even 2 more projection softwares will read waves so users can promptly convert them to ild to share with friends and colleagues, basically the rest of the laser community.

Peace.

[JohnYayas]

It was never 'ild vs wav' for me- as I stated earlier, my understanding of ILDA came much after. Back in 05 there were few if any
cheap laser DAC options, but I knew how to hack an audio card with extra circuitry to produce bipolar DC signals. I did not have the
knowledge to address an audio card directly in realtime, but I did know how to hack the beans out of a wave file without wrecking it.
James had knowledge of several vector formats and developed techniques to optimize the material to look good on modest scanners and
I had some tricks for generating 3D 24 bit color abstracts along with stereo sound to go with it.


James and I had a cheap and dirty way to get a laser projector going, as well as interoperability between our apps via an agreed on
formatted wave. We totally bypassed any established laser practice, but it was strictly limited to pre-processing, and after-the-fact
playback through a wave player.


For me, things changed when drlava introduced EzAudDAC. Serveurperso on PL posted a simple beam app written in VB6 complete with
sourcecode:

https://www.photonlexicon.com/forums...-dll-VB6-issue

That's when I learned how to write to a DAC in realtime and I wrote SpiroDAC, a realtime function generator that supports several
cheap DACs using EasyLase/EzAudDAC function calls. Only after this experience, I decided it was time to get off of Gilligan's Island
and learn ILDA so I wouldn't be cut off from the rest of the world. I still see value in the concept of 'laser formatted' wave for
canned and ready-to-go content for playback that includes the ability to decompile into the original source material.



The question is, what exactly is a 'laser formatted' wave, and who is Pontificus Maximus complete with the binding and loosing clause
in charge of its specifications? James, even your beloved C/C++ has some oversight by a governing body of more than one individual-
ANSI, I think.


Recently, I added support for the Helios DAC in SpiroDAC and LWave and I plan to offer support for EtherDream if I can ever get
ahold of j4cbo...

There are a good number of EtherDream based applications on github. Some googling and you will find lots of samples in different languages. I can also probably help you. PM me with any questions you might have. I am sure others can help besides j4cbo if he is a blocker.

[JohnYayas]

Thats great!
I thought someone mentioned to me there was some kind of licensing involved to parts of the code.. but guess that was wrong then!

Still the lack of implementation in programs has what has been holding me off getting an IDN compatible dac (there aren't too many either I think).
It's like they always say.. content is key.. even if the format/protocol/hardware is better on paper.

Well, Pangolin isn't going to adopt it because they are Pangolin, but others have. Even Spaghetti supports IDN.

[JohnYayas]

Because you don't agree with what I say?

Then you make it about me by not addressing the statement, but dismissing ME.

Why not have a conversation about the technical aspects of this stuff?

I remember probably a decade ago there was talk about the want of a descriptive vector format that did not contain any point to point information, but rather a description of things like points, lines and curves. Plus it could have animation effects and timing stuff in description as well. I think Gary was a fan of this idea.



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Yes, and if I do any future application work I will adopt this approach instead of dealing with ILDA files. It would still be exportable to ILDA, however, since ILDA is the best way to export content for other software to use.

[james]

Yes, and if I do any future application work I will adopt this approach instead of dealing with ILDA files. It would still be exportable to ILDA, however, since ILDA is the best way to export content for other software to use.

I have in a way. I developed a text to animated vector font script and an animated math rendering script.


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[swamidog]

that's the problem.. when the key player in the industry sticks to proprietary formats.

Well, Pangolin isn't going to adopt it because they are Pangolin, but others have. Even Spaghetti supports IDN.