New format for laser shows - time to upgrade the show production

[james]

everything you just said is incorrect and is based on imagination and ego.

Don't bother to address any one point in particular. Just throw it all out as "incorrect".

So typical.

Pathetic.

[swamidog]

yup.. it's not worth my time to do any more.

Don't bother to address any one point in particular. Just throw it all out as "incorrect".

So typical.

Pathetic.

[JohnYayas]

Once again, both of you have completely failed to grasp the the meaning of my statements and you continue to ignore the statements I've already made that were intended to enlighten you.

In this context, much of what you wrote is self-contradictory.

If you are satisfied with just using whatever the "industry" provides you to make "art" that's fine for you.

I'm creating new possibilities and expanding capabilities for myself and everyone else who wants it.

I don't force anyone to do anything. If my application is anything, it is a bridge between "industry standards" and all kinds of other applications that are completely outside of the industry.

Cutting edge art isn't created by thousands of people using the same technology. That's not art. That's utility. Art is created by individuals doing something different.

Both of the other software developers (and many others including both hosts Derek Holzer and Ivan Klif) in that panel discussion have created applications that can use wav as a data source in their modular systems. They just didn't demonstrate that in their presentation. Since that panel discussion, there is already a collaboration happening to advance their understanding and utilization of both wav and ilda files.

The only thing that can currently be stored in an ilda file that can't be stored in a wav is a palette. And the ilda section 2 palette is pretty much never used and often not implemented in applications that read ilda! I was just thinking about that last night and I plan to add that to my wav extensions too.

For those people who do use my application to make wav, there are many many more who use it to convert from wav, txt, or dxf to ILDA.

I'm not at all "butt hurt" about the way ILDA busted their own file format. It was busted from the very first version before I ever heard of it. If anything, my application has become the reference standard working implementation of the ILDA file format. Yes. That's right. My application is used by all kinds of developers to prove that their own implementation of ilda is correct and I get questions about it regularly. Isn't that right Gary? I remember your first posts about Spaghetti that featured screen shots of your app with my frame set loaded.

Probably the most common comment about my application is that it has a steep learning curve. That means that you can't make much use of it at all until you LEARN; not just about how to use the application but also about everything that it does and why you would want to do that. That knowledge translates to the way ilda files work in other systems. But neither of you would ever know that because you have a huge blind spot in your imagination also known as an attitude problem.

@absolom7691
Your signature "Those who fail to grasp art are the ones who criticize it." is fucking hilarious.

Why do you keep minimizing the scope of the technology that might be used in this art form? I'm not taking anything away from anyone. I'm giving everyone WAY more options to use with everything they already have.

James.


.

Yea, I had one of your ILDA files in a Spaghetti screenshot since LaserBoy is an application for creating ILDA files that can be exported to WAV format.

Why do you keep bringing ART into this anyway? If you just want to create ART then yea, throw paint on a ceiling fan if that is the medium you want to choose. But, those who are attempting to create LASER SHOWS in a standard, extensible, modern, and portable way are going to choose to use something that is appropriate and built for laser shows, not a ceiling fan, bicycle, or a WAV file.

I think I am done with this discussion as it is exactly the same as it was 10+ years ago.

[james]

yup.. it's not worth my time to do any more.

Wow! That's a compelling argument you've got there. I'm convinced.

Yea, I had one of your ILDA files in a Spaghetti screenshot since LaserBoy is an application for creating ILDA files that can be exported to WAV format.

Why do you keep bringing ART into this anyway? If you just want to create ART then yea, throw paint on a ceiling fan if that is the medium you want to choose. But, those who are attempting to create LASER SHOWS in a standard, extensible, modern, and portable way are going to choose to use something that is appropriate and built for laser shows, not a ceiling fan, bicycle, or a WAV file.

I think I am done with this discussion as it is exactly the same as it was 10+ years ago.

It's quite a bit more than just that.

But you wouldn't know that because you have your own preconceived notion of what it is without ever bothering to really try it.

I guess it's all a matter of what you think is ART.

It's very philistine to argue against something that to you is a total unknown.

I know multiple people who have gotten their Master of Fine Art and PhD in Technology Art who used my application as a recourse in their dissertations.

What about you?

.

[swamidog]

do you actually believe you are the gatekeeper for art? is your ego that immense?

let me tell you a secret.. it's not the tool that makes the art. it's the artist. a tool does not make better art because it is esoteric and difficult to use. your tool does not create better laser art than lsx, or pangolin, or lasergraph, or radiator, or spaghetti, or laserOS, etc. because it is more difficult, has a smaller user base, and uses a non industry standard file type.

you are not "enlightening" us. at least not about art.

in fact, i've never seen a laser show created with laserboy. has anyone actually done one?

i've done cutting edge laser art installations. i didn't use laserboy or wave files for them. i'm fairly confident i have more ilda artistic awards than any other individual in the history of the industry. i didn't use laserboy or wave files for them.

my team has brought new tools to the laser show industry that are being used to create amazing and unusual things. we didn't use laserboy or wave files to create them.... and our industry award winning radiator can output ilda files for direct import into any other industry standard laser show software.

so... don't lecture me on art and the advantage or using non standard tools.

It's quite a bit more than just that.

But you wouldn't know that because you have your own preconceived notion of what it is without ever bothering to really try it.

I guess it's all a matter of what you think is ART.

It's very philistine to argue against something that to you is a total unknown.

[absolom7691]

If you are satisfied with just using whatever the "industry" provides you to make "art" that's fine for you.

This is an elitist argument and completely irrelevant. You're minimizing every tool other than your own to make them and everyone who uses them lesser. Have you used LSX? Have you used Beyond? Have you used Digisynth? Have you used Radiator? I HAVE used LaserBoy. I HAVE made waves with it. I have also used LSX and Beyond. I would love to use digisynth but I can't afford the additional hardware that it requires. Would I touch LaserBoy again to make art, recorded to a superfluous format? Hell no!

Are you satisfied with what the "Industry" provides you to make your "art"? How do you make your brushes? What hair do you use to make them, ox hair, badger hair...? What pigments and oils do you used when making your own paint? How do you prefer to weave your own canvases before you start painting? Or do you just use what the industry provides to you when you make your paintings. See, irrelevant argument but minimizes your art by using quotes. For the record, I really like your paintings a lot and think they're quite amazing.

So, sorry but you can take that elitism and shove it up your ass. I don't feel a bit minimized by what the industry has provided. I have also seen some amazing art that has won people awards by using those very same industry tools. Tools don't make artists.

Cutting edge art isn't created by thousands of people using the same technology. That's not art. That's utility. Art is created by individuals doing something different.

Bullshit. TOOLS DON'T MAKE ARTISTS!!!! Sculptors use clay and shaping tools. Painters use paint, brushes, knives etc. Musicians use pen and paper and also perform their art using instruments. All of these tools have been around for an extreme amount of time and still, there are cutting edge artists born every day. You're, once again, minimizing what other people do by what they use to make art and therefor, making them lesser.

I'm not at all "butt hurt" about the way ILDA busted their own file format.

Are you sure??? This is an argument, by you, that has spanned a decade. Most of the time, it is brought up by you. If you want to continue to, yet again, shit on the ilda file format, do it in your own thread so we can all ignore it.

Probably the most common comment about my application is that it has a steep learning curve. That means that you can't make much use of it at all until you LEARN; not just about how to use the application but also about everything that it does and why you would want to do that. That knowledge translates to the way ilda files work in other systems. But neither of you would ever know that because you have a huge blind spot in your imagination also known as an attitude problem.

It is a steep learning curve. If someone is just starting out and you push LB and waves on them, right out of the gate, it becomes daunting to enjoy laser display as an artform. The learning curve is a huge hill to climb just to make some pretty lights, to get enthused, to start that inspirational spark. The best way to teach someone to swim is NOT by throwing them in the water. Sounds to me like your imagination is limited and you have an attitude problem because you just can't understand why very few people want to use your software. They've told you but you ignore them.

Your signature "Those who fail to grasp art are the ones who criticize it." is fucking hilarious.

You know what else is fucking hilarious? I haven't criticized anyone's art. I've only criticized the tools. You only feel that way because you view the tool you created as art. It's not. It's a tool. If a tool is difficult to use or makes no sense, I DON'T USE IT and I will take a shit on it. Stop twisting what people say to make yourself out to be the victim. No one is attacking you, James.

Why do you keep minimizing the scope of the technology that might be used in this art form?

I'm not. I'm stating a fact. Very few people use waves for laser projection. Why is that? There are very few laser tools out there to create waves and those that can are not easy to use. Is what I'm saying minimizing???

Well, once again you've worn everyone down, this thread will die like all the others that talk about this same subject because people are too exhausted to go on. Congrats, James... you "win" again.

[JohnYayas]

Wow! That's a compelling argument you've got there. I'm convinced.


I know multiple people who have gotten their Master of Fine Art and PhD in Technology Art who used my application as a recourse in their dissertations.

What about you?

.

If you want to go there...

I reached a deal with laser projector/software company in China and sold the software rights to them for $100K.

I have sold licenses to 100s of people all over the world not to mention the vast amount of pirating that I know has been done in Russia.

Several schools and universities have purchased Spaghetti for whatever they want to do with it.

There is no doubt in my mind that the software I have written has benefitted a crap ton of more people than your software ever will.

[absolom7691]

I think I can sum it up...

[james]

do you actually believe you are the gatekeeper for art? is your ego that immense?

let me tell you a secret.. it's not the tool that makes the art. it's the artist. a tool does not make better art because it is esoteric and difficult to use. your tool does not create better laser art than lsx, or pangolin, or lasergraph, or radiator, or spaghetti, or laserOS, etc. because it is more difficult, has a smaller user base, and uses a non industry standard file type.

you are not "enlightening" us. at least not about art.

in fact, i've never seen a laser show created with laserboy. has anyone actually done one?

i've done cutting edge laser art installations. i didn't use laserboy or wave files for them. i'm fairly confident i have more ilda artistic awards than any other individual in the history of the industry. i didn't use laserboy or wave files for them.

my team has brought new tools to the laser show industry that are being used to create amazing and unusual things. we didn't use laserboy or wave files to create them.... and our industry award winning radiator can output ilda files for direct import into any other industry standard laser show software.

so... don't lecture me on art and the advantage or using non standard tools.

I've never said that no one else has any idea about aesthetics or an understanding of art or is deserving of respect for such.

Technique and tool making is most certainly an art.

Art doesn't need to be commercially successful as a product for the masses.

My application most definitely does make industry standard formats.

I've never said anything negative about your art or your device.

As a matter of fact, I think you have a good aesthetic and I like pretty much all of your art that I've seen.

I don't have an ilda award because I haven't paid money to submit my work to a very small number of people who also paid money to judge it. So I can't say I'm the best within a tiny group of people who gather together to give each other awards.

[james]

If you want to go there...

I reached a deal with laser projector/software company in China and sold the software rights to them for $100K.

I have sold licenses to 100s of people all over the world not to mention the vast amount of pirating that I know has been done in Russia.

Several schools and universities have purchased Spaghetti for whatever they want to do with it.

There is no doubt in my mind that the software I have written has benefitted a crap ton of more people than your software ever will.

Excellent. Congratulations. I mean that.