Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Galvanomotor Pinouts

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2025
    Posts
    2

    Question Galvanomotor Pinouts

    Hi all,

    I have been trawling the internet for a few days now looking for a pinout for a set of galvos - I'm trying to create a simple protocol for measuring the reliability of a given set of scanners.
    The aim is to facilitate open-source 2-photon / laser scanning microscopy, so being able to characterize any set would reduce the dependence on any one supplier.
    Currently I and one other person I know of are looking to replace the expensive standard ones with some cheaper things, but I digress.

    My actual question is does anyone have a pinout for the generic connectors (JST-XH7 or similar?) sitting on the back of the motors? I have seen the datasheet here, but I do not understand the initials/symbols they use https://novantaphotonics.com/wp-cont...2xxK_83xxK.pdf.

    I would be exploring this myself on the board but I am not sure whether to measure voltage, current etc and whether I risk making anything go pop!

    Any input would be greatly appreciated

  2. #2
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
    Infinitus Excellentia Ion Laser Dominatus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    A lab with some dripping water on the floor.
    Posts
    10,016

    Default

    I know what they mean. I have the third or fourth largest collection of galvo documents in the user world and know where the patents and journal articles are,.

    Issue is achieving Automatic Gain Control for the feedback sensor and some circuits which achieve linearity correction.

    The Galvo is part of a system, and the individual Galvo does not mean much unless you characterize the scanner driver amplifier PID tuning. In most cases the differential amplifier that processes the photodiode currents is set to N volts per degree, which is kept constant with changeable components on the driver board. This way the same driver can be used with different Galvos with minimal changes.


    M+ galvo Coil
    M- galvo Coil

    Ia sensor output current (one photodiode)
    Ib sensor output current (other photodiode)
    DC From AGC circuit to drive sensor LED
    Common cathode for PDs and LED
    AN = LED anode in some cases.

    Some Galvos have 4 PDs operating in an opposed pair, some have two, some have dual LEDs.
    Some have shaped sensor flags, some have butterfly flags, some (Chinese copy clones) have simple rectangular flaps on the end of the shaft.

    Some end users have more or less pins brought out, what you see above could be considered stripped down compared to what may be brought out on a confocal Galvo with separated coil and sensor grounds etc.

    Then there is Bill Benner's designs for Scannermax with shaped PDs and DSP amplifiers which are a whole new world.

    Give me a day, but you are barking up the wrong tree unless you characterize the whole system (papers by Duda, Et AL are great but skip the amplifier details, which is tragic)

    Then there are systems with capacitive sensors and digital encoders.

    I'm a former confocal operator as well as light show guy.

    Unless you know the design constants for a given amp, swapping parts can be high risk unless you access some check points and test. I do it on a regular basis, but I measure the volts per degree deflection (optical) on my amps long before the galvo dies. I also have a master chart of parts changes for the most popular maker's old stuff.

    Tell me more about your plans before you even consider publishing anything. This is NOT easy, and in the hands of a hurried grad student with poor reading comprehension, will result in smoking hardware. Which happens with amazing regularity considering the number of graduate students and laser show folks who have sought my help over the years. You also have shaft resonances and notch filters to consider.

    The designs are often copied overseas, with parts cost reductions and omitted components, which makes matters worse.

    How you measure is important, for laser shows we have standard test patterns. Marking and Confocal users use proprietary test patterns and square waves. Problem is, what is a great test waveform for one setup is a disaster if overdriven or used elsewhere. There are also various tuning methods which trade off speed, jump size, accuracy etc. There is also strategic shaping of the command waveforms.

    So again, tell me what you plan to do before I consider helping you open a huge can of worms for an academic user who reads your work, is in a hurry and skips the details of the PID and PII loop, oscillates or slams their scanners, and smokes them.

    Yeah I know there is a backlog since the MBAs took over company X to maximize shareholder value and stopped stocking common parts,

    The laser show common test patterns are of little help to you. I'd ignore the term PPS when you encounter if for confocal use. Small jump size, settling time, large jump size, position sensor constants, there are a ton of measurements the light show side often ignores on the data sheet.

    And the choice of mirror inertia to shaft inertia ratio is even more complex.

    Drop me a PM with your position details and phone number, email, etc if you want to discuss. And I know where the two principal designers of modern Galvo amps reside, one is semi retired, the other shifted companies.

    Once upon a time I took the factory tuning course at an industry conference with hands on. Access to that was restricted to persons who could show a modest amount of analog and PID knowledge, and whom were unlikely after vetting to blow up 3000$ systems. the instructor was at the time the foremost analog closed loop amplifier designer at his company.

    Forgive me if I sound arrogant, but over the years I've found a little knowledge of Galvo amps and the resulting Transfer Functions is often TOO little.

    Show me a willingness to be careful and learn, and you may end up with a pile of half dead galvos and drivers of various brands and sizes to dissect.

    Most major makers of Galvo Systems currently ignore academic users due to the smoking unit phenomena, and the immense amount of time and product support required. I was actually told that by the president of one company. That person will sell to me as a Laser Show customer whenever I want, and nearly whatever I want. IF I called from my former academic position sales and service would be politely declined. Hence your difficulty in finding information.

    I'll gladly explain why I am so finicky on the phone.


    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 04-02-2025 at 17:27.
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
    I should have rented the space under my name for advertising.
    When I still could have...

  3. #3
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
    Infinitus Excellentia Ion Laser Dominatus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    A lab with some dripping water on the floor.
    Posts
    10,016

    Default

    One warning, hooking a tunable signal generator to the amplifier input without a bit of education is very fatal as scan angle and frequency increases.
    Most modern makers of cloned galvos have omitted the coil protection calculator circuit. There are definate frequency vs angle response transfer function issues.

    Failure is usually from coil heating. The coil on the stator is very close to the rotor, within 0.002 inch in some models. In overdrive situations the copper coil heats up, expands, and is snagged by the rotor, stripping the insulation off the magnet wire. The rotor is then grounded and shorts the amplifer, or the coil is damaged and turns are shorted. The other common beginner failure mode is hitting a resonance or driving the Galvo so hard the sensor flag hits the case and is damaged or knocked off/ Please, please, talk to me before trying any unknown test protocols.

    EDIT: A Galvo sold for confocal use also likely has long life ceramic bearings vs steel ball.

    Kind Regards,

    Steve,

    (Formerly Senior Technician, Very Big, Very Technical, Research I University)
    Last edited by mixedgas; 04-02-2025 at 17:28.
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
    I should have rented the space under my name for advertising.
    When I still could have...

  4. #4
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
    Infinitus Excellentia Ion Laser Dominatus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    A lab with some dripping water on the floor.
    Posts
    10,016

    Default

    Attached is not even a beginning... I'm away from my laptop tonight.

    That second attached drawing is a PID amp without some modern analog functions that make high speed raster scans possible. . Modern amps are variable PID or PII, and can switch modes, and have spaces for notch filter inserts. The triple notch boards have to be tuned for each Galvo / mirror combo as it comes off the production line. Which requires some remarkably sophisticated gear other then for the lowest notch which can be found by hand. The notch filters are inserted in the feedback loop, they are NOT installed before the amplifier input.

    You'll hit one heck of a problem with the scanner mirror coatings for 2-Photon. Off the shelf common dielectric coated scanner mirrors rotate incident polarization and reflectivity at widely different rates vs wavelength and scanner position angle. Overcoated metallic mirrors will retain polarization well, but have severe peak power limitations. For the most part, Two Photon Mirrors will be optimized by the Galvo maker for the task in conjunction with the Confocal Maker, if Not with the Laser Supplier.

    Again, this is not easy. What your looking at is older. Newer Galvos have different PD biasing requirements. Recently designers have reversed the classic PD polarity to increase response speed and to allow active biasing.

    R77 sets the position linearity, Protocols for adjusting it would vary widely. For laser shows, it is lowest reading at TP1 on a True RMS voltmeter set for AC followed by visual analysis of the projected test image, a grid in this case. Touch up could also be done on a good digital oscilloscope. Most Laserists don't even know that exists. A Confocal user might want a more sophisticated circuit and method, AGC out drives the position sensor LED(s). LED is misnomer, on a high end Galvo it is a precision solid state light source in a metal can.

    Steve
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails stripped notch filter.png  

    stripped-old amp.png  

    GENERIC  POSITION.png  

    Last edited by mixedgas; 04-02-2025 at 18:44.
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
    I should have rented the space under my name for advertising.
    When I still could have...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2025
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Wow! Thank you Steve for the considered attention in your replies!

    Overall our aim is to replace the expensive galvos currently in use in a 2P / confocal microscope with more affordable alternatives such as can be bought on ebay / aliexpress etc. or other cost-effective alternatives.

    In terms of approaching that, we've most recently decided to try and create a protocol to test critical features for any arbitrary galvo to test its suitability / make adjustments or limits on the system to maximise their effectiveness.
    For our research purposes, all we would need would be to find the maximal angle / voltage at which the galvo may make a full sweep + return in 2us.

    One thing we would be trying to measure would be the readout of the position. As you said though, and reading between the lines, the 'position' is never given as absolute and requires the galvo and the driver to exist - and the driver needs to be appropriately tuned to the galvo. From what you've said though, it would seem there are a great deal of dimensions to consider that have been beneath my radar.

    So it looks like we have two options: develop / use an open-source tunable driver board (which I get the impression may stress you out to hear (sorry)) OR make a measurement protocol for galvo-driver combos.

    I would be keen to hear your thoughts on how you'd approach either of these options.

    Many, many thanks,
    Marcus

    PS: PM incoming

  6. #6
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
    Infinitus Excellentia Ion Laser Dominatus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    A lab with some dripping water on the floor.
    Posts
    10,016

    Default

    Ah, ok,

    Chinese galvos arrive with the tuning set for laser show, Ie ILDA 30K. The response is shaped to have a tradeoff between smooth lines and stopping at corners in images. It is not the maximum accelerate to half point, maximum decelerate tuning for a fast jump.

    I have a friend who imports them in the US.

    Board tuning Consistency is moderate. Generally, they come with two different cable configurations and minor changes to the boards on a regular basis. In the near future they will all probably come with a unitary board with the diode drivers merged with the scanner amp. In other words, what you receive will have all sorts of minor variations over time. The amplifier position sensor calibration is set for a super wide angle, so that will probably have to be backed off.

    So how about I link you up with the US Distributer who can get them consistently from the same plant. There are multiple plants, and quality is all over the place.

    The test fixture is fairly simple, I have an Amp board you can copy.

    Drop me a PM...

    Steve
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
    I should have rented the space under my name for advertising.
    When I still could have...

  7. #7
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
    Infinitus Excellentia Ion Laser Dominatus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    A lab with some dripping water on the floor.
    Posts
    10,016

    Default

    We had a nice chat. I should be able to help him.

    Steve
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
    I should have rented the space under my name for advertising.
    When I still could have...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •