ILDA file default color tables

[carmangary]

I have an ilda file and my software doesn't like it. I checked into it and the color index for points is outside of the 64 color default color table. There is no color palette defined in the file so I can only assume it is using some other default color table that has 255 entries.

So, does anyone know anything about what is going on?

[buffo]

There are a couple different file formats, including a 256 color one (255 plus blanked), for ILDA files. My guess is that your file is saved in that format and thus your software is choking on it.

Mamba should be able to read it and re-save it with a 64 color table. Likewise for Pangolin LSD 2000.

Post the file here and I'll give it a shot.

Adam

[carmangary]

Thanks for checking into it. I'd really like to just fix my software to read them properly but it would help to have it converted just to see what it is supposed to look like.

There are actually several files that are this way and I got them all from the this forums ftp site. If you go to the ftp site and open the "more ilda files1.rar" file, one of them is called Abstract.ild. The file is over 2MB in size so it's probably not a good idea to attach it. But, I can send it to your email if you'd rather me do that.

Thanks,
Gary

[Zoof]

try these values
[source: BILDA project]

// ilda standard color palette 
const unsigned char ilda_palette[256][3]={
    {   0,   0,   0 },	// Black/blanked (fixed)
    { 255, 255, 255 },	// White (fixed)
    { 255,   0,   0 },  // Red (fixed)
    { 255, 255,   0 },  // Yellow (fixed)
    {   0, 255,   0 },  // Green (fixed)
    {   0, 255, 255 },  // Cyan (fixed)
    {   0,   0, 255 },  // Blue (fixed)
    { 255,   0, 255 },  // Magenta (fixed)
    { 255, 128, 128 },  // Light red
    { 255, 140, 128 },
    { 255, 151, 128 },
    { 255, 163, 128 },
    { 255, 174, 128 },
    { 255, 186, 128 },
    { 255, 197, 128 },
    { 255, 209, 128 },
    { 255, 220, 128 },
    { 255, 232, 128 },
    { 255, 243, 128 },
    { 255, 255, 128 },	// Light yellow
    { 243, 255, 128 },
    { 232, 255, 128 },
    { 220, 255, 128 },
    { 209, 255, 128 },
    { 197, 255, 128 },
    { 186, 255, 128 },
    { 174, 255, 128 },
    { 163, 255, 128 },
    { 151, 255, 128 },
    { 140, 255, 128 },
    { 128, 255, 128 },	// Light green
    { 128, 255, 140 },
    { 128, 255, 151 },
    { 128, 255, 163 },
    { 128, 255, 174 },
    { 128, 255, 186 },
    { 128, 255, 197 },
    { 128, 255, 209 },
    { 128, 255, 220 },
    { 128, 255, 232 },
    { 128, 255, 243 },
    { 128, 255, 255 },	// Light cyan
    { 128, 243, 255 },
    { 128, 232, 255 },
    { 128, 220, 255 },
    { 128, 209, 255 },
    { 128, 197, 255 },
    { 128, 186, 255 },
    { 128, 174, 255 },
    { 128, 163, 255 },
    { 128, 151, 255 },
    { 128, 140, 255 },
    { 128, 128, 255 },	// Light blue
    { 140, 128, 255 },
    { 151, 128, 255 },
    { 163, 128, 255 },
    { 174, 128, 255 },
    { 186, 128, 255 },
    { 197, 128, 255 },
    { 209, 128, 255 },
    { 220, 128, 255 },
    { 232, 128, 255 },
    { 243, 128, 255 },
    { 255, 128, 255 }, // Light magenta
    { 255, 128, 243 },
    { 255, 128, 232 },
    { 255, 128, 220 },
    { 255, 128, 209 },
    { 255, 128, 197 },
    { 255, 128, 186 },
    { 255, 128, 174 },
    { 255, 128, 163 },
    { 255, 128, 151 },
    { 255, 128, 140 },
    { 255,   0,   0 },	// Red (cycleable)
    { 255,  23,   0 },
    { 255,  46,   0 },
    { 255,  70,   0 },
    { 255,  93,   0 },
    { 255, 116,   0 },
    { 255, 139,   0 },
    { 255, 162,   0 },
    { 255, 185,   0 },
    { 255, 209,   0 },
    { 255, 232,   0 },
    { 255, 255,   0 },	//Yellow (cycleable)
    { 232, 255,   0 },
    { 209, 255,   0 },
    { 185, 255,   0 },
    { 162, 255,   0 },
    { 139, 255,   0 },
    { 116, 255,   0 },
    {  93, 255,   0 },
    {  70, 255,   0 },
    {  46, 255,   0 },
    {  23, 255,   0 },
    {   0, 255,   0 },	// Green (cycleable)
    {   0, 255,  23 },
    {   0, 255,  46 },
    {   0, 255,  70 },
    {   0, 255,  93 },
    {   0, 255, 116 },
    {   0, 255, 139 },
    {   0, 255, 162 },
    {   0, 255, 185 },
    {   0, 255, 209 },
    {   0, 255, 232 },
    {   0, 255, 255 },	// Cyan (cycleable)
    {   0, 232, 255 },
    {   0, 209, 255 },
    {   0, 185, 255 },
    {   0, 162, 255 },
    {   0, 139, 255 },
    {   0, 116, 255 },
    {   0,  93, 255 },
    {   0,  70, 255 },
    {   0,  46, 255 },
    {   0,  23, 255 },
    {   0,   0, 255 },	// Blue (cycleable)
    {  23,   0, 255 },
    {  46,   0, 255 },
    {  70,   0, 255 },
    {  93,   0, 255 },
    { 116,   0, 255 },
    { 139,   0, 255 },
    { 162,   0, 255 },
    { 185,   0, 255 },
    { 209,   0, 255 },
    { 232,   0, 255 },
    { 255,   0, 255 },	// Magenta (cycleable)
    { 255,   0, 232 },
    { 255,   0, 209 },
    { 255,   0, 185 },
    { 255,   0, 162 },
    { 255,   0, 139 },
    { 255,   0, 116 },
    { 255,   0,  93 },
    { 255,   0,  70 },
    { 255,   0,  46 },
    { 255,   0,  23 },
    { 128,   0,   0 },	// Dark red
    { 128,  12,   0 },
    { 128,  23,   0 },
    { 128,  35,   0 },
    { 128,  47,   0 },
    { 128,  58,   0 },
    { 128,  70,   0 },
    { 128,  81,   0 },
    { 128,  93,   0 },
    { 128, 105,   0 },
    { 128, 116,   0 },
    { 128, 128,   0 },	// Dark yellow
    { 116, 128,   0 },
    { 105, 128,   0 },
    {  93, 128,   0 },
    {  81, 128,   0 },
    {  70, 128,   0 },
    {  58, 128,   0 },
    {  47, 128,   0 },
    {  35, 128,   0 },
    {  23, 128,   0 },
    {  12, 128,   0 },
    {   0, 128,   0 },	// Dark green
    {   0, 128,  12 },
    {   0, 128,  23 },
    {   0, 128,  35 },
    {   0, 128,  47 },
    {   0, 128,  58 },
    {   0, 128,  70 },
    {   0, 128,  81 },
    {   0, 128,  93 },
    {   0, 128, 105 },
    {   0, 128, 116 },
    {   0, 128, 128 },	// Dark cyan
    {   0, 116, 128 },
    {   0, 105, 128 },
    {   0,  93, 128 },
    {   0,  81, 128 },
    {   0,  70, 128 },
    {   0,  58, 128 },
    {   0,  47, 128 },
    {   0,  35, 128 },
    {   0,  23, 128 },
    {   0,  12, 128 },
    {   0,   0, 128 },	// Dark blue
    {  12,   0, 128 },
    {  23,   0, 128 },
    {  35,   0, 128 },
    {  47,   0, 128 },
    {  58,   0, 128 },
    {  70,   0, 128 },
    {  81,   0, 128 },
    {  93,   0, 128 },
    { 105,   0, 128 },
    { 116,   0, 128 },
    { 128,   0, 128 },	// Dark magenta
    { 128,   0, 116 },
    { 128,   0, 105 },
    { 128,   0,  93 },
    { 128,   0,  81 },
    { 128,   0,  70 },
    { 128,   0,  58 },
    { 128,   0,  47 },
    { 128,   0,  35 },
    { 128,   0,  23 },
    { 128,   0,  12 },
    { 255, 192, 192 },	// Very light red
    { 255,  64,  64 },	// Light-medium red
    { 192,   0,   0 },	// Medium-dark red
    {  64,   0,   0 },	// Very dark red
    { 255, 255, 192 },	// Very light yellow
    { 255, 255,  64 },	// Light-medium yellow
    { 192, 192,   0 },	// Medium-dark yellow
    {  64,  64,   0 },	// Very dark yellow
    { 192, 255, 192 },	// Very light green
    {  64, 255,  64 },	// Light-medium green
    {   0, 192,   0 },	// Medium-dark green
    {   0,  64,   0 },	// Very dark green
    { 192, 255, 255 },	// Very light cyan
    {  64, 255, 255 },	// Light-medium cyan
    {   0, 192, 192 },	// Medium-dark cyan
    {   0,  64,  64 },	// Very dark cyan
    { 192, 192, 255 },	// Very light blue
    {  64,  64, 255 },	// Light-medium blue
    {   0,   0, 192 },	// Medium-dark blue
    {   0,   0,  64 },	// Very dark blue
    { 255, 192, 255 },	// Very light magenta
    { 255,  64, 255 },	// Light-medium magenta
    { 192,   0, 192 },	// Medium-dark magenta
    {  64,   0,  64 },	// Very dark magenta
    { 255,  96,  96 },	// Medium skin tone
    { 255, 255, 255 },	// White (cycleable)
    { 245, 245, 245 },
    { 235, 235, 235 }, 
    { 224, 224, 224 },	// Very light gray (7/8 intensity)
    { 213, 213, 213 },
    { 203, 203, 203 },
    { 192, 192, 192 },	// Light gray (3/4 intensity)
    { 181, 181, 181 },
    { 171, 171, 171 },
    { 160, 160, 160 },	// Medium-light gray (5/8 int.)
    { 149, 149, 149 },
    { 139, 139, 139 },
    { 128, 128, 128 },	// Medium gray (1/2 intensity)
    { 117, 117, 117 },
    { 107, 107, 107 },
    {  96,  96,  96 },	// Medium-dark gray (3/8 int.)
    {  85,  85,  85 },
    {  75,  75,  75 },
    {  64,  64,  64 },	// Dark gray (1/4 intensity)
    {  53,  53,  53 },
    {  43,  43,  43 },
    {  32,  32,  32 },	// Very dark gray (1/8 intensity)
    {  21,  21,  21 },
    {  11,  11,  11 },
    {   0,   0,   0 }	// Black
};

[carmangary]

Thanks. I'll try this one out. It is odd that the first 64 color values are totally different than the 64 color default color table. So, if I display using the 255 color table it will make most other ilda files look weird. I wonder how I'm supposed to know which color table to use?

The ILDA file format is really stupid.

[Zoof]

The ILDA file format is really stupid.

I agree, well it makes sense but the way it is used is stupid. There should be only one standard table, the one above with 256 values. However, the one with 64 values is the one that is used alot. Like by Mamba. It must have grown that way.

Ilda RGB makes more sense to me. I use it to be compatible with other programs. But it is becoming clear why most programs come with their own file format.

[carmangary]

I modified my software to use the 255 color table but it is no help because the points are all color #255 in the table and that happens to be 0,0,0 (black). So, it's drawing nothing!

Could somone with some real software try to load the ilda file I mentioned above to see if it actually displays anything? I tried it in Moncha and it doesn't display anything, either.

Thanks in advance.

[buffo]

I loaded the file into both the Alphalite software and Mamba Black. I got different color results! The Alphalite software displayed the file in green, while Mamba Black displayed it in red. (Haven't tried it with Pangolin yet; will try that when I get home tonight.) But both other programs displayed it in monochrome. I don't know why the colors were different though.

The file is a short animation with a pair of arcs swirling in the center, plus another pair of swirling arcs on each side of the center that move up and down. (Think of a set of parentheses swirling around a drain and you've got the basic idea... Now add two more pair - one on either side - and rock them up and down while they swirl. That's it.)

Adam

[carmangary]

Thanks for trying that out. It's odd that you have different colors. Does anyone know who uploaded that .rar file with those ILDs in it? It might be helpful to find out where they came from.

Does your software mention default color palettes at all in the documentation? That might help as well.

It may be that your software just maps any color index > 63 to either red or green. I might have to do that if I can't figure this one out.

Thanks again.

[buffo]

I'll check on default color palettes when I get home. I know that Mamba has support for an ILDA 256 format in addition to ILDA RGB and a couple other wierd ones. I had assumed that the file was saved with one of those other formats, but maybe not. Maybe it's just a corrupt file.

We'll see what happens when I load it up into LaserShow Designer (Pangolin) tonight.

Adam