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Thread: ILDA file default color tables

  1. #11
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    The color index used in that file is 255. I don't think the file is corrupt because there are many more in that .rar file that behave the same way.

  2. #12
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    Cool

    Well, no obvious info on default color table values for either the Alphalite or Mamba Black software - sorry. (Lousy documentation)

    I did load the file in Pangolin's LaserShow Designer, and just like Mamba Black, it displayed in all red. Then I loaded it into the Anarchy editor, and once again it displayed in all red. So I guess the Alphalite is the odd-man out since it showed the file as being all green. Not sure if that's relevent or not.

    I saved the file from within anarchy and optimized the file at the same time. It made it slightly smaller. I'm curious if the color table was reset when anarchy saved it... I'm attaching a copy of the file to this message (abstracttest.ild); have a look at it and see if it's got the same issues as the original file.

    The other thing I can try is to re-color each frame and then re-save the file. But since there are 780 frames, I'd rather not do that unless I have to. (Maybe just the first 20 or so?) Let me know...

    Adam
    Attached Files Attached Files

  3. #13
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    The converted file displays properly in my software. I'll analyze it later to see what the differences are. I'll post my findings.

    Thanks,
    Gary

  4. #14
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    Very interesting. The color index was converted from 255 to 63. In the 64 color default table 63 is RGB: 255, 32, 32. So, that would be a slightly light shade of red.


    I wonder if that was a meaningful translation or if it just picked the highest number (63) and used it.

    If you have the means, it would be interesting if you could create a frame with a color of some high index (200 for instance). Save it, then reload it and see what the 200 ends up mapping to. But only if you are interested.

  5. #15
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    I don't mind trying it... Not sure how to select color # 200 though. I just use the color wheel, so I don't really know which numeric value is being used.

    If you have a file you've created (or edited even) that has that specific color number selected, I'd be happy to wash it through anarchy and send you the result so you can see what it maps to...

    Adam

  6. #16
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    I took a look at Anarchy. The default Anarachy pallette is the Pangolin 64 color pallette and there is a text file in the Anarchy directory that says that any color index than 63 will be mapped to 63. There is also a Laser Illusions pallette with those 255 colors in it. I wonder what happens if you select that pallette and then load the file. I'll have to try it when I get home.

  7. #17
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    Just thought I would report on what I ended up doing. I contacted Bill at Pangolin about this to see what they do and it was the same as what I expected. If no color tables are within the ILDA file and the color index is >63 then they just use color index 63. So, anything of color index 64 to 255 would be displayed as red. Of course, if a color table exists then it would be used.

  8. #18
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    OK, thanks for letting us know.
    Strange though.

    hows is your programming coming along?

  9. #19
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    It's going great. I can play shows and stuff and will use it to play the Spooky show that was made for Mamba Black this Halloween. I'm also working with someone on this forum to be able to directly load Mamba files and play them. We'll see how it goes.

  10. #20
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    I am amused every time people refer to the ILDA Color Table that we use as the "Pangolin Palette". This was not invented by us. Here is the whole history.

    First, Pangolin was the very first company to actually implement the ILDA File Format. This is ironic since the format was originally invented by a combination of Steve Heminover from AURA, and another person whose name I can't remember at Image Engineering. Even though they pushed for the format through ILDA and published it, they themselves never implemented it... so around four years after it was published, Pangolin was the first.

    After we implemented it, we then started looking for people with ILDA files, so we could make sure our loader was working correctly. Of course there were no other ILDA files... It seems that everyone within ILDA was waiting for everyone else to implement it. So after a company (Pangolin) had actually shown interest in the ILDA format and actually implemented it... various people in the industry, including Steve Heminover, raced to implement it on their systems. As far as I know, Steve was the second person to implement it.

    Since that time, most people implemented the ILDA format incorrectly... so we had to inject a lot of "band-aids” in our loader. Now our loader can load something like 12 different flavors of the ILDA file format. This is pretty disgraceful because the ILDA format is really so simple. I am amazed that seemingly nobody can implement it correctly. And then there are those who call for a more complex format. Sheesh!!

    Anyway, back when we implemented the ILDA format, there was no "Official ILDA Color Table". In fact, there was no color table at all… BUT, there were two companies who sold a lot of artwork in the ILDA format. Those two companies were Laser Fantasy, and AURA. Because of their heritage, both of those companies used the same color table internally. Since Pangolin software was in large use throughout the industry at that time, we adopted the color table that both Laser Fantasy and AURA was using, since they made the largest use of the ILDA format in terms of selling artwork.

    Years after that, ILDA tried to solve the problem by coming out with a suggested ILDA Color Table. And then by implementing the ability for people to try to integrate their own “interleaved” color tables. But as far as I know, not a single company ever implemented the suggested ILDA Color Table, and only a single company ever implemented the “interleaved” color tables.

    In any event, the color table that we use is not really the "Pangolin Color Palette", but more like the "AURA/LFI Color Palette". Again, because those two companies were probably more active than any other company in terms of selling and trading frames in the ILDA format, that color table is more of a standard than any other color table, including more of a standard than later attempts by ILDA to change it...

    Incidentally, Pangolin was also the first company to get away from palettes altogether, because of the obvious color-related problems with sharing files...

    Yes, the ILDA format is not all that great of a format. But if you read the preamble in the ILDA format documentation, you will see why. It wasn't meant to be anything more than a method to get graphics from one piece of software to another. It wasn't meant for entire show playback, and wasn't meant to be the sole format or "internal format" used by any piece of laser software. It is strictly for "data interchange" with the idea that you probably will have to do some post-correction, once you get the data into the other computer. This is the same with 3D formats like 3DS, OBJ, etc. If you export one of these from MAX and import it into MAYA, or vice versa, there is going to be missing information. If the top 3D companies in the world can't make a format that will work between all the platforms, what hope does a small cottage industry like this have of creating a universal format?


    Best regards,

    William Benner

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