New Coldfire-based Networkable Embedded Laser Controller!

[laserLips]

I'm not saying that at all Pangolin, what I mean is I don’t think you can attack someone just because they have something similar ( along with millions of other sites) and say they stole it. I was unaware that you have implemented such sites as your MSM sites and wish you all the best of luck...why anyone would want to chat through SMS is beyond me unless they are millionaires but that is by the by.
I think this has gone far enough over a silly piece of JavaScript don't you?
Let's get back to what this thread is really about?


Edit :: P.s when I was refereing to MySite.com I meant which ever site was using the code, so in your case it would be originating from pangolin.com

[buffo]

Laserlips;

You missed the bulk of Bill's post. It wasn't "something similar" that he found on the LaserMame page, it was something IDENTICAL, right down to the variable names used in the script and the custom images on the page.

Bill said (emphasis added)...

there is at least one flag (maybe more, I can't remember) that I generated myself and for which there was no original Babelfish equivalent (as far as I know). I saved them off using a file naming, sizing, and digital watermarking convention that is unique to Pangolin.

Now, how on earth could the identical image, right down to the digital watermark, end up on LaserMame's site if he didn't rip it off from Pangolin? This is just the tip of the iceberg, mind you, but I wanted to make the point that Bill's comments have real merit. Don't dismiss them out of hand just because you think that Javascript is so commonplace that it's impossible to code a unique script. (Instead, have look at the code for both pages and draw your own conclusions. Then D/L the images and do a byte-by-byte comparison.)

I honestly don't think Bill is all that upset about the theft of some code and a few images from his site. The point is that it shows a lack of integrity; a willingness to take the cheap way out. (Especially since it's highly likely that Bill would have given it to them if they'd only asked permission first. That's an assumption on my part, but a valid one I think.) As for some of the other issues, well, those are more serious.

Msith;

How interesting that you chose *this* particular thread to make your first post in. Normally I welcome people with open arms, but you seem to have an agenda. Forgive me if I withhold my greetings until I see a few more posts.

My website was placed on-line in 2001 and slightly modified in 2002. Since then it hasn't changed. So, yeah, it's considerably out of date. If you prefer to judge me based on 5-6 year old information rather than the bulk of my posts here on the forums over the last two years, so be it.

Nevertheless, a person need not be an expert to notice that 1) Lasermame's controller has a lot in common with Pangolin's, 2) The people that are trying to promote it have spent the bulk of their time complaining about the questions people are asking rather than answering them. If that sort of behavior doesn't make you suspicious, then something is wrong.

I'm not against innovation; quite the opposite. I'm all for new products. I'm also not so narrow minded that I can't accept the fact that people might prefer to use different products. Case in point: though I currently have a Pangolin controller, I *also* use Mamba Black *and* the Alphalite software. In fact, I'm still using the Alphalite controller for a few things! (Abstracts, for one.) Likewise, I've recently done some work for a professional laser company that still uses the Full-Auto software. After learning how to use it, I can see it's strengths, and I understand why they continue to use it. (Though, admittedly, it's not my favorite.)

Anyway, I was almost with you when you started talking about how you're an amateur laserist and how you just wanted information and all... (see this part of your post)

I have had an interest in regards to playing around with doing laser graphics, but the big problem is that there is little for the armature types in terms of a good quality (and inexpensive) laser controllers... now, when this guy came on and posted about a new controller, I was very interested..

But then you threw all your credibility out the window when you said this:

Its this very mentality and attacks on new things that really piss me off and one reason what I hate about this industry.

Hmmm... So which is it? Are you a hobbyist that "has an interest in regards to playing around with doing laser graphics", or are you an industry insider that knows enough about the major players that you've formed an opinion about how people do (and do not) cooperate in the business? Because you can't have it both ways.

because Australia is far away or small, does not mean products coming from there are bad

I never said that Australia is a problem. In fact, I never even mentioned Australia. But you have just betrayed yourself as a shill, because the only other person to mention Australia was IMC, and that was in a different thread! (You really need to keep your on-line personas straight.)

So I think Adam, that you are someone who lacks integrity and vision..

Then you know nothing of me, or my values. My contributions to this forum, and to the community, speak for themselves. I asked simple, direct questions. IMC, LaserMame, and now you, have all refrained from answering them. Now you are attacking my character, and the questions still remain unanswered. If anyone has a problem with integrity, it's you. (all three of you)

Do you want to put a stop to this? Fine. Answer some questions.

You can start by clarifying the details of your previous history with Pangolin, and why you are no longer associated with them.

Adam

[dave]

I never said that Australia is a problem. In fact, I never even mentioned Australia. But you have just betrayed yourself as a shill, because the only other person to mention Australia was IMC, and that was in a different thread! (You really need to keep your on-line personas straight.)

Hey Buffo, Australia is mentioned in the opening post of this thread :P

[allthatwhichis]

Your too nice allthat

Thanks, I try... and it gets me in trouble sometimes.

And in that spirit, let us mature up and take the eveolved "discussion" over to a new thread, "Bash buffo", or "Disprove lasermame", or something. I might enjoy opening the buffo one. Let's bring this crapped on thread, out of the head and get it back on topic to where it was supposed to go... Might should have been in the For Sale forum but...

lasermame,

Any chance you will toss out some prices? Software screen shots? Is there anyone here that hasn't kicked you in the nuts, someone that is a known user here, that could do a small reivew? A side by side with the set up they have...

I do like the RJ45 connection. I'm used to run CAT 5 cabling though. Have you done any length tests to see how far you can be in a cable? I also like the USB drive support. Everyone has one of those. There are too many digital cards out there. I have a separate one for my camera, DV Cam, and phone camera... I'm confused by the color blanking, does it do analog, if not, will it? If you look at some of my posts, I'm not the most knowledgeable. I just sit in front of my computer a lot at work...

[The_Doctor]

Ok, looks like someone was definitely caught with the hand in the cookie jar. Watermarked images and specific variable names are a trail that can't be ignored. I thought maybe both variants (separate flags and image map) might both have been public domain, but never mind.

I think this can get damaging, as it appears there is indication of deep history to this. If anything can be substantiated and publically announced safely, that is better than what I saw. That or silence. Two least damaging options.

Bill, re the propagation, that could expand into a full debate on the patent concept and process. I won't though. I'l just say that the propagation of ideas is fair game, the propagation of work is not. The difficulty comes in telling the difference at times. If someone reverse engineers to the point where they understand what was done, extract just the parts and concepts they need, and rebuild from the ground up, that's still fair game, but it does look like too many shortcuts were taken in this case to justify a strong claim of originality. I'm not judging that though, I haven't seen either board myself.

[Pangolin]

Ok, looks like someone was definitely caught with the hand in the cookie jar. Watermarked images and specific variable names are a trail that can't be ignored.

Thank you Doc. I do appreciate the intent of your original post. After all, nobody wants to be the brunt of wrongful accusations.

But when a copy of something as trivial as a Babel launch mechanism turns up on someone else's page, complete with original Pangolin images and everything else, I think people have got to ask the question "hmmm"...

Frankly, it baffles me why so many people take the "Bart Simpson" approach. (I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything...)

Anyway, people can make up their own minds as to what is going on here...

Best regards,

William Benner

[buffo]

Well spoken, Bill.

LaserMame, you have consistently dodged the issues that were raised by some of the members here (including me). Furthermore, as Bill already mentioned, you are grossly inconsistent with your posts, accusing someone of being underqualified to judge your design in one post, then asserting that they should know quite a bit about PCB layouts in another.

I also find it very hard to believe that you, IMC, and msith are not in cahoots together; that is, if you're not actually all the same person.

Finally, for someone who claims to be poised to market a new, exciting laser controller, and who is supposedly enthusiastic about sharing it with the laser community, I have to ask myself why your posts are so vitriolic and confrontational. Questions were asked, and instead of answering them, you got defensive. OK, maybe some of the questions rubbed you the wrong way. Deal with it. Had you answered them with a positive, upbeat tone, this thread would be devoted to discussing the merits of your new design.

Instead, you have given us plenty of examples that give us reason to doubt your integrity. Further information was provided, suggesting that you had not been completely truthful about your history with Pangolin, and instead of full disclosure you replied with more personal attacks. You also ignored the obvious similarities between your product and Pangolin's. Now, how do you expect people to respond in the face of such behavior?

Screw this. I spend enough time doing favors for people as it is. Bill's post above lays it all out on the line. If you can't come clean with a full disclosure of your history in the laser industry, and the development process for your new controller, then I'm wasting my time in this thread. And I have more important things to do than to try to convice you to be honest.

Adam

[Pangolin]

Actually, it wouldn't [be fine to say that the QM2000 was an inspiration for your developments].

Just so we have it in writing, are you saying that your board uses none of the same components of the QM2000? Moreover are you saying that, with all of the time you have spent with the QM2000, it has played absolutely no role what-so-ever in influencing your current product?

P.S. don't kid yourself about your SDK...

Oh, believe me, I don't kid myself. That SDK is undeniably ours -- having been in development since 1989, and now in use by thousands of laserists.

Don't YOU kid yourself about it! We take steps to protect and enforce our intellectual property rights.

Best regards,

William Benner

[mliptack]

Did Lasermame remove a post?

[cruch]

Hmm..looks like it...anyone want to share??