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Thread: To the laser show software companies

  1. #121
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    Default

    Hi Steve
    I agree with the statements you have made, I wonder how many of the people involved in the project you are working on have considered the initial brief for the project requirements. I would guess that most are relatively young compared to us and they have there relevant qualifications in either computer sciences or an associated degree. I would also guess that there are very few who understand machine code or the concept of bcd (singular byte encoding) on a given structure.
    It is a shame that most modern computer courses teach high level languages like C## or Visual basic and skip over there fundamental beginnings of the old days of programming and the structure of basic machine code.

    " Tandy Radio Shack" (TRS 80) brings back some cool memories, the old TRS series for it's time was really cool, the Sinclair Spectrum ZX80 still gave better performance though, programming was a real pain, there were so many bugs in the system like the TRS 80 that any undefined variable would cause a total system crash. I have to say my fondest memories were of the old Commodore Pet computer, it had the old monochromatic green screen, the slowest floppy drive in the world but it was a really solid computer. The best computer for it's time was the old BBC Basic, (64k of memory and a very early RISC OS), I'm showing my age here (please don't tell).

    The point I am trying to make (and echo Steve's sentiments) is that there is a large majority of people who profess to be experts in given fields, who write software or create products based on other peoples technology without having the understanding of the basic principals of the building blocks of that technology that they are trying to sell. The problem for the future that may occur, are what happens when the older technical artisans who have learned the basic principals are no longer available to impart the relevant information to solve the current problems. If the current generation think they can plague-rise then technological advances will cease because the current generation will be unable to think outside of their teaching confines.

    All the best

    Clive

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    It is now time to state Robertses law of modern computer operating systems

    "As motherboard speed, memory, and hard drive capacity climb, operating system programmers will use the resources in such a bloated way, that soon boot time will go from 15 seconds or so to approaching infinity, the machine will never be able to fully boot through the bloated operating system, let alone run a benchmark or give you a prompt."


    We have two skilled programmers trying to learn how to read a variable length file format from a doppler velocimeter here at work, its goonna take them weeks in java and windows "C sharp dot net" whatever. I'm getting so POed waiting for it,That I'm about to do it in Quickbasic in a evening just because I can and I'm the hardware guy, not the code guy.

    I had a model I 16K TRS80 with a tape drive, Dad wouldnt pay 700$ for the expansion interface and another 500$ for a floppy.Buffo, I have seen and used EIs, and seen the schematics, so I know they existed. Remember the "one liners" contests in the TRS80 magazines? How much code could you fit in one line to do something useful. Remember , hitting carrage return to add a line to a program could burn as much as 200 bytes of ram.
    I too, missed getting a big trak. fnny how there is not a toy rob0t out there now with anywhere near the functionality of that beast for the price, even adjusted for todays dollars.

    BTW, one of the first laser graphics generators had 128 pairs of linear pots, scanned in sequence.Try drawing with that!.. then record it to FM tape. Its successor was boosted to 256 pairs. Suprisingly, some of the pictures of the images were pretty good by todays standards.

    Steve Roberts
    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    near D.C.
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    27

    Default favorite vintage puters

    My favorite was the Atari 2600...
    I could do some cool things with that...
    Also helped write an assembly language program on an Apple II that would process music and provide kleidiscopic effects.

    Both of those machines were stars in the 80's when I worked lighting in clubs in NYC. Of course having a 14-watt laser that could light a cigarette at 6 yards wasn't bad either.

  3. #123
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    Default

    sorry to dig this up but this thread was very amusing to read with the 5 year gap in time, seeing how things have changed for example Spaghetti planned to be for free, now selling with licences and dongles or Pangolin talking about inexpensive scanners for $25 (ScannerMAX perhaps?) or ILDA still being the de-facto standard to interchange lasershows

  4. #124
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    Orlando, FL - USA
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    Hi Dzodzo,

    I don't have time to completely go through this five-page thread that is five years old. However, in 2002 we did work on a project that used a new type of scanner that delivered better than 30K performance and could indeed easily be made for $25 in large quantities. The project was made for a consumer-based laser projector and there were many companies involved in the consortium including Levis (the jeans people), Intel, Logitech, Quiznos Subs and others that I can't remember right now. I was only involved in the technological developments and consulting (including a DSP-based laser controller/servo combination) and very wide angle, rear-projection scanning. Although the project fell through for business reasons, we're slowly introducing the results of those developments to the market, including the scanners and DSP servo amplifier (both shown at ILDA) and wide angle lenses (different from Discoscan, and coming next year as an add-on for ScannerMAX scanners).

    HOWEVER, what is more relevant than the 2002 project, but related and immediate is the release of our new Compact 506 scanner which we showed and delivered at ILDA. This is a tiny scanner, but one that delivers amazing results. HB had them running at their booth, side by side with Cambridge model 6210 scanners. They had two of our sets running -- one with 3mm mirrors and another with mirrors usable with 5mm square laser beams. The projected images on both of our sets were indistinguishable from the Cambridge 6210s, all being driven by the same HB Apolo SuperMicro amps.

    At the ILDA Advanced Technology Workshop, we discussed these scanners and discussed that we believe these Compact 506 can be made at a price that they can literally be designed into every single laser projector ever made, including those made in China! This is a bold statement, but we believe it is possible. Basically, scanners that deliver the same level of performance as Cambridge 6210s for the price of scanners found in Chinese projectors. This is possible due to the construction techniques -- that things just snap and screw together, along with the economy of scales thanks to a new customer who just placed an order for more than 1 million pieces!

    I'm a little surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet. My presentation at the ATW was 30 minutes long, and there were several people who went home with a pair of these scanners. They won't be sold to individuals at that low price, but will be sold to OEM companies who are willing to order more than 100 pieces at a time.

    You can find a data sheet for the Compact 506 here:
    http://www.scannermax.com/pdf/Compact506.pdf

    Best regards,

    William Benner

    PS: Note that I likely will not read any responses to this for quite some time, since I do not get to PL very often. If you have any questions, please email me directly.
    Last edited by Pangolin; 11-11-2013 at 16:05.

  5. #125
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    Dec 2008
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    veenwouden
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    Default

    They won't be sold to individuals at that low price, but will be sold to OEM companies who are willing to order more than 100 pieces at a time.
    Willing to? That,s a nice way of putting it. I think you mean : Able to. So in other words al the small companies that can,t afford 100 pieces are not interesting. Not everyone has 100 grand on his bankaccount.........

    Nice attitude in doing bussiness.

    Funny that always goes about money and quantities. Money rules the world as always

    I think i will stick with eyemagic...........


    Interested in 6-12W RGB projectors with low divergence? Contact me by PM!

  6. #126
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    Default

    Please re-read what I wrote. They won't be sold to individuals AT THAT LOW PRICE. They will be offered to individuals at a higher price.

    And who's talking about "100 grand"? We're talking about VERY low cost scanners here!

    It's turning out that we have two offerings -- what most companies would call high performance (and we'll call low-cost) and what we call high-performance (true 60K).

    Our low-cost scanners will be offered to OEMs at very attractive, quantity-based pricing. By dealing with OEMs directly, we help to get a large number of scanners into the hands of consumers (by way of a large number of laser projectors being sold). But we'll also sell these scanners to individuals as well, but the individual price will be higher. This makes sense because things are normally available in quantity discounts. We already delivered a few pairs to individuals at ILDA.

    Although you -- on an individual level -- may not be very excited by this, we're very excited about this, because it means that all projectors will be able to meet a minimum of 30K ILDA spec, thus helping to improve the quality of the projected images available to everyone while not increasing end-user costs at all.

    Two to three times the performance for the same price? Plus the ability to handle large mirrors with the same great image quality, thus allowing higher power lasers with big beams to be sold? Sounds like a great deal to me!


    Bill
    Last edited by Pangolin; 11-11-2013 at 17:36.

  7. #127
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    do they come with drivers? If they CAN be 25 in lots of 100 than I suspect 100-200.00 seems about right for 30kps scanners. I'm sold where can we get them. I could use some right now.

  8. #128
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    It's ironic that a company that specializes in software and controller boards, and one that has produced two separate award-winning servos over the years has not produced a driver up until now. But that's because we've chosen to spend our time working on things that the world does not have.

    There are many OEM companies who make their own scanner driver and thus who are immediate customers for our scanners. The world already has drivers. What the world does not have is a) 30K scanners available for Chinese-scanner prices; and b) super-fast and super-accurate scanners available at prices lower than other American-made scanners. So we've spent our time working on these things, which are all usable with existing drivers.

    With that being said, we showed our new DSP-based scanner amp at ILDA and also on our ScannerMAX Facebook page. This is made for our Saturn line of professional scanners and will be made available for the unbelievably low price of that which the other American manufacturer charges for their cheapest dual-axis analog amp. For the cheap scanners, we're formulating the design for a credit-card-sized dual-axis driver for them. But this will not be a cheap driver.

    Unlike our Saturn series of scanners, which require at least small modifications to normal drivers in order to operate, the Compact 506 is actually directly compatible with normal drivers. If we plug our Compact 506 scanner onto a normal Cambridge driver, it will work directly. But performance is improved with a few component changes.

    Kecked, I think you already have Cambridge drivers. These scanners can likely be made to work for you very quickly indeed. Please contact me by email. I've got some in stock right now.

    Bill

  9. #129
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    Default Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
    It's ironic that a company that specializes in software and controller boards, and one that has produced two separate award-winning servos over the years has not produced a driver up until now. But that's because we've chosen to spend our time working on things that the world does not have.

    There are many OEM companies who make their own scanner driver and thus who are immediate customers for our scanners. The world already has drivers. What the world does not have is a) 30K scanners available for Chinese-scanner prices; and b) super-fast and super-accurate scanners available at prices lower than other American-made scanners. So we've spent our time working on these things, which are all usable with existing drivers.

    With that being said, we showed our new DSP-based scanner amp at ILDA and also on our ScannerMAX Facebook page. This is made for our Saturn line of professional scanners and will be made available for the unbelievably low price of that which the other American manufacturer charges for their cheapest dual-axis analog amp. For the cheap scanners, we're formulating the design for a credit-card-sized dual-axis driver for them. But this will not be a cheap driver.

    Unlike our Saturn series of scanners, which require at least small modifications to normal drivers in order to operate, the Compact 506 is actually directly compatible with normal drivers. If we plug our Compact 506 scanner onto a normal Cambridge driver, it will work directly. But performance is improved with a few component changes.

    Kecked, I think you already have Cambridge drivers. These scanners can likely be made to work for you very quickly indeed. Please contact me by email. I've got some in stock right now.

    Bill

    Sounds great. Even a full set with drivers for under 1k would be most welcome.
    Will contact. This is for an all diode unit. I'd rather not take apart my 6215 projector.
    I'll contact you via email. Thanks for the quick reply.

  10. #130
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    Default

    Will the Compact 506 connect to a TurboTrack?

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