Laser-wave to CNI Compare Test

[Zoof]

When I got my CNI green it had what I call a very high duty cycle dependency problem, meaning that power would go up when there was more green in the image. Because of this, it was impossible to set a good general color balance. When there was a small percentage of green in the scanned image, the yellow became orange and with a high percentage of green in the image yellow became green.

The laser was returned to CNI, they listened very well (I suppose it did help that I talked to them in person in Munich) and showed me performance charts that I could agree on before shipping the laser back. Now it is a very solid laser that has some nonlinearities but my software takes care of that. The blanking on the new green is as fast as my red now. Power is just above the 120mW mark. Model is GLM-III-100. Threshold voltage is around 1.1 V.

The blue I got from CNI at the same time has been great from the start. It is a BLM-50 and is doing 112mW still. The threshold voltage is indeed around the 1.2V mark but software can deal with that too. Of course there is the speckles problem but I don't see a way around that for now.

CNI should lift their default product quality to a higher standard. If they can do it, and can do it without extra charge, then why not do it?!
In my dealings with CNI I got the impression they are very busy people. It will do them good to slow down a bit and help the customer get their requirements on the table up front so they (we) get what we expect to get. Most customers simply do not know what to ask for, they expect a good operating device and don't know all the little issues dpss lasers can have.
I know there is a clash of cultures going on here as well - but for long term relationships it is best to be open and avoid nasty surprises. It is good to see CNI here, I hope they will listen as well as Bridge has been.

best,
Matthijs

[CNI LASER]

A little more information in the interest of "supply" debate.

Pricing..

I have the pricing from three manufacturers direct. These are CNI, Viasho and Laserwave.
These prices have all been obtained over recent weeks and in no case older than 6 weeks ago.

These are not prices from third parties or retailers they are from the actual (allegedly) manufacturer.

The pricing just goes to show that you may possibly be already paying a margin for a higher quality (?) to get that nicer specification.

I will list these but am not saying who's price is what (not relevant) this is just to demonstrate the issue of pricing over a similar power green laser module by three separate manufacturers.

300mw, green analogue, TEM00..... $480.00, $739.00,$700.00
500mw, green analogue, TEM00..... $1150.00, $1330.00,$1000.00
1000mw, Green analogue, TEM00 ...$2000.00, $2305.00,$1800.00
all US$

Now take a look at the spread of the three manufacturers, for say the 1 watt unit with a price differential of some $505.00... is this REALLY for the same laser ?? or does one have more "smarts / quality" then the other ??
or is it the attempt of a supplier just to make the most money from his product ?

Hence why we need to do a LOT of homework PRIOR to ordering to ensure we get what it is we think we need.

Anyway food for thought .. I have no bias at this time as so far I think they could all do with improving their product presentation and final quality control.
It may now be a good thing that we have all three ( CNI, .. Frank@ Viasho, ... Bridge @ Laserwave) represented on PL now so we can work with them to provide the best product to a higher standard that we should be able to expect.

I stress that none of my lasers from China have been without issues of some kind. None too serious but compared to what we should be able to get... well not that good either.

Cheers

Ray
NZ

Sometimes,the lower prices really appeal customers.Anyway,CNI has in this line over ten years,and reached over ten million EUR last year.Somewhat,the prices are always related to the quality.Like most of the women shopping for clothes,even the prices a little higher ,but they still like to buy from big store,not on street,but the lower prices are always attractive.I think what we can do is to improve the quality better,and maybe the prices also need to adjust some.Thanks.

Best regards to all.

www.cnilaser.com
avazlp@163.com

[dave]

The pricing just goes to show that you may possibly be already paying a margin for a higher quality (?) to get that nicer specification.

Of course you pay more money for better quality and higher specs...

[CNI LASER]

When I got my CNI green it had what I call a very high duty cycle dependency problem, meaning that power would go up when there was more green in the image. Because of this, it was impossible to set a good general color balance. When there was a small percentage of green in the scanned image, the yellow became orange and with a high percentage of green in the image yellow became green.

The laser was returned to CNI, they listened very well (I suppose it did help that I talked to them in person in Munich) and showed me performance charts that I could agree on before shipping the laser back. Now it is a very solid laser that has some nonlinearities but my software takes care of that. The blanking on the new green is as fast as my red now. Power is just above the 120mW mark. Model is GLM-III-100. Threshold voltage is around 1.1 V.

The blue I got from CNI at the same time has been great from the start. It is a BLM-50 and is doing 112mW still. The threshold voltage is indeed around the 1.2V mark but software can deal with that too. Of course there is the speckles problem but I don't see a way around that for now.

CNI should lift their default product quality to a higher standard. If they can do it, and can do it without extra charge, then why not do it?!
In my dealings with CNI I got the impression they are very busy people. It will do them good to slow down a bit and help the customer get their requirements on the table up front so they (we) get what we expect to get. Most customers simply do not know what to ask for, they expect a good operating device and don't know all the little issues dpss lasers can have.
I know there is a clash of cultures going on here as well - but for long term relationships it is best to be open and avoid nasty surprises. It is good to see CNI here, I hope they will listen as well as Bridge has been.

best,
Matthijs

Thanks a lot for your comments.We'd like to be open and avoid nasty surprises.As for "CNI should lift their default product quality to a higher standard. "I'll send your words to boss.I'll try our best to meet your request.

Thanks.

best regards to you.

www.cnilaser.com
avazlq@163.com

[CNI LASER]

Thanks a lot for your comments.We'd like to be open and avoid nasty surprises.As for "CNI should lift their default product quality to a higher standard. "I'll send your words to boss.I'll try our best to meet your request.

Thanks.

best regards to you.

www.cnilaser.com
avazlq@163.com

I just got the positive information from boss,that we'll lift our default product quality to a higher standard.Thx.

Best regards to all.

[dave]

And the dip shouldn't be there in the first place - especially in the case of laser show use. Our software relies upon the linearity of the laser's analog modulation.

Not true. If you use LD2000, there is compensation for this and a whole lot more in the palette setup...

[liv]

Not true. If you use LD2000, there is compensation for this and a whole lot more in the palette setup...

Can you tell how it compensates the dip in the laser show use? Please tell our guys how to solve these problem. I know CNI lasers is rather good lasers except this thing.

[Zoof]

In my experience CNI laser outperform their spec sheets, meaning that the specs are on the safe side (as they should be). In 2003/2004 I had very different experiences with other manufacturers. The fact that CNI publishes realistic specs (not the best but realistic) was one of the reasons I bought from them (end 2006).

However, the spec sheets still do not tell the whole story. We are also in interested in:
1) linearity of the modulation
2) duty cycle dependency - very important for color balance - view (you might want to play it a few times to see what is going on)

These are typically expected to be 1) linear and 2) non existing by customers, since they need to be for our laser show application. Can laser manufacturers take that expectation seriously and build their lasers so that these properties are within acceptable limits (= not visible during laser shows without concession) as a default quality standard?
Can they publish these specs, preferably as charts?

3) more info on the blue speckles problem. CNI states "noise of amplitude ~ 30%" for 473nm lasers. This must be the speckles problem and CNI is openly telling the world it is there, which is great! The number doesn't really tell me how severe it looks though - well after buying I know. Can CNI bring this number down to, say 10%? Will it cost extra?

These are the issues I came across, there are probably more so others can append the list.

best,
Matthijs

[dave]

Can you tell how it compensates the dip in the laser show use? Please tell our guys how to solve these problem. I know CNI lasers is rather good lasers except this thing.

See here

http://www.pangolin.com/_Videos/DVD_Ch5_640x480.wmv

[mliptack]

Not true. If you use LD2000, there is compensation for this and a whole lot more in the palette setup...

Yes this is ONE of many software platforms out there. I use FB3 right now because quite frankly I dont have the funds for LD2k - wish I did.