Laser-wave to CNI Compare Test

[bridge]

Thanks for all of you join, also thanks CNI lasers.
This is really a interesting one threads, thanks CNI lasers, because you coming, the things become more interesting.
Yes, I don't want to complian anyone, anything,Customer only need us do better and better, this is what Laser-wave always tring. I am sure compare any time any where, we all want good quality and cheaper prices, so compare never stop, compare also the best way to know each other, just like Bridge said before, we like compare and thanks all of you reply, that will make us do better and better products, thanks for all of you join , just like Pitts said:" time will prove it", yes, time will prove all thing.
I am really suiprise is：

CNI LASER
Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 13

he is spy ?
________________________________________
I hate to be unpolite to all my customers.All the customers are my god from the time beginning of being the sales woman .I'd like to to all my best to meet their request from CNI and me.Almost all the customers are the most friendly people from all over the world.Excet this man from Austria.Phillip ,you buy lasers from CNI all the time,and say they are not good all the time.why.Please tell me why.If you have eye,you can see what we do always.You can ask all the customers from CNI what they think about CNI laser.We spent more than 10year in this line,we have confidence in the quality.If you have any need from us,please contact us at avazlq@163.com.

Why a customer always said your products not good? Why? Spy? My god. Just like you said CNI did lasers more than 10 years, yes, Laser-wave only more than 1 years, why before Phill buy from laser-wave also say CNI’s laser not well? Thinks it , if customer compare and say no to CNI, CNI think they are Spy? Unbelievable.
Yes, thanks for compare, because compare the laserworld become different, we like it, if no compare, we had no choice, thanks for compare, we had more choice, I am sure the people here all know the compare Law, I only want to say through compare let all of us do better.
Thanks again, all of you reply is very very important for us, that will promote us do better and better later.
Best regards!
Bridge

[dave]

Yes this is ONE of many software platforms out there. I use FB3 right now because quite frankly I dont have the funds for LD2k - wish I did.

We run quite a few CNI lasers here, and to be honest, even with FB3, I have never noticed any issues. We have a pair of 600mw RGB's and often run them off the same FB3/QM2000... The colors are identical out of each laser. This is what I care about most.... I really think this whole modulation thing has been blown out of proportion somewhat.

[Phritzler]

Hello!
I don´t know what to say.
About the lasers : The CNI is an MGL 250 what reached 400mW, the Laserwave is a 300mW version what reached 412mW. So they on the "same point" for the compare test.
I will wait for CNIs new better quality...
If anyone has an Idea what I shall make with the lasers (other modulation test, videos, etc.) please tell me, so I will make it !

-Phil

[liv]

In my experience CNI laser outperform their spec sheets, meaning that the specs are on the safe side (as they should be). In 2003/2004 I had very different experiences with other manufacturers. The fact that CNI publishes realistic specs (not the best but realistic) was one of the reasons I bought from them (end 2006).

However, the spec sheets still do not tell the whole story. We are also in interested in:
1) linearity of the modulation
2) duty cycle dependency - very important for color balance - view (you might want to play it a few times to see what is going on)

These are typically expected to be 1) linear and 2) non existing by customers, since they need to be for our laser show application. Can laser manufacturers take that expectation seriously and build their lasers so that these properties are within acceptable limits (= not visible during laser shows without concession) as a default quality standard?
Can they publish these specs, preferably as charts?

3) more info on the blue speckles problem. CNI states "noise of amplitude ~ 30%" for 473nm lasers. This must be the speckles problem and CNI is openly telling the world it is there, which is great! The number doesn't really tell me how severe it looks though - well after buying I know. Can CNI bring this number down to, say 10%? Will it cost extra?

These are the issues I came across, there are probably more so others can append the list.

best,
Matthijs

As far as I know, CNI has published low noise 473nm lasers, and the noise of amplitude can be up to 3%. But I think it will need extra cost.

[Pitts]

Of course you pay more money for better quality and higher specs...

HI Dave,

I don't disagree with this, however my point is until we can nail down what it is they intend to supply. You may only be paying more to fatten their pocket ??.
A higher priced product does not necessarily imply a higher quality product. It may or it may not.

What we now need to do is get this to the point where we as members can ask the right questions of our suppliers. (manufacturer or retailer)
Most hobbyists are only going to purchase a few devices over a certain time frame most of us are not "experts".
To this end I think we could do with setting up a "check list" of what questions to ask and that this is well matched to the purpose of laser lights shows.
I mean if you just order a green, 400mw, analogue... thats what you will get as their "default product". (CNI have even referred to this in this thread)

Perhaps our Chinese manufacturers here on PL (who are after all are the professionals in this business) may care to list for us what they need to know from us to ensure a higher quality product for light show work is delivered.

eg..

Wavelength (colour)
Power output
Modulation type and frequency.
Divergence
Beam diameter at apeture
Modulation Linearity
Power stability
Power supply /driver type (lab or OEM)
etc etc

Perhaps they could put in some actual suggested figures for us to look at.
Then we can look at price and see how it all shapes up.
If this happened then we would be comparing apples with apples and may the best man win so to speak.

Just a thought..

Cheers

Ray
NZ
ps... an example and I am as guilty as the next guy, there is the group buy from Viasho at the moment. What is it EXACTLY we are buying at this good price ?? a 1 watt green !!..... doesn't say much really does it. Will we be happy or not with our purchase ? We need to ask the questions!!

[Zoof]

Hi Ray,

to uncover more of those hidden specs, could you write about the issues you had with your Chinese lasers? I think it will help make the list complete.

cheers,
Matthijs

[Pitts]

Hi Ray,

to uncover more of those hidden specs, could you write about the issues you had with your Chinese lasers? I think it will help make the list complete.

cheers,
Matthijs

Hi Matthijs..

Firstly ket me say I am no expert on these spec's.
What I am hopeing is that some of our more knowledgeable members and hopefully some of the laser manufacturers engineers themselves may come to the party and fill in the blanks for us. Such that we can develop an intelligent list of spec's to ask for when ordering.
If we did that then we would all have the required information to ensure a good product is delivered.

I think what may be happening is we are providing too little information to our suppliers. This opens the door for them to send whatever complies with our "lack of detail"... beware the ignorant so to speak.

With my own lasers I have had.
Mod hopping.
Fatter green beam than I thought I was getting.
Blue laser with a little crescent artifact.
Poor assembly of power supply causing cutting in / out
Supply of a second hand laser head of unknown origin instead of new.

All of these from well known manufacturers.
These issues can be summed up as poor final quality checks and controls. Simply put when these units got to final inspection they should have gone back for rectification. For some reason the manufacturers saw fit to send them out...
Ironically this is easy for them to fix.. they may have a good design but if defects gets through they have lost their reputation (and probably future business). Hopefully these discussions will get the message through to them. Maybe thats why the European units have such a good rep'

They know once you get it there is little chance you will send it halfway around the world back to them to fix due freight and customs issues. !!
By the way have you looked at what it takes to send back a laser unit to China for repair. You are either faced with falsifying documents to the Chinese Customs (which may possibly have your goods seized) or paying a large importation duty just what you do not need.

Anyway lets hope this thread gets them onboard to help.

Cheers

Ray
NZ

[steve-o]

I am a bonified LaserWave fan (473nm) with no problems so far.. after the projector is rebuilt I will post the results.

[mliptack]

We run quite a few CNI lasers here, and to be honest, even with FB3, I have never noticed any issues. We have a pair of 600mw RGB's and often run them off the same FB3/QM2000... The colors are identical out of each laser. This is what I care about most.... I really think this whole modulation thing has been blown out of proportion somewhat.

Where you are running identical set ups of course you wont notice a difference - if you did that would be worse. But I am sure Steve Roberts would probably agree with me on this considering the fact that he had a nice rant about the linearity more specifically the lasing voltage with analog modulation DPSS lasers.

Now take equal projectors - just different mfgs of the lasers themselves and compare the two. I am sure a graphic shown at ~2.5-3v where the CNI dip was would look different than a projector using laser-wave lasers.

I would be interested to see a CNI only projector. If all lasers including their red and blue lasers had that same dip then power levels for a white balance would be fine across the board. But I highly doubt even that is the case.

Dave rest assured I am not attacking your thoughts here at all just merely expressing my thoughts. I have been working in the lighting industry for over 10 years now - I am not saying that makes me an expert, however, I can see very small changes in the intensity of light - and stuff like that has the tendency to bothers me - especially if I was the one designing it and I saw some flaw like that. I am my biggest critic.

[CNI LASER]

Thanks for all of you join, also thanks CNI lasers.
This is really a interesting one threads, thanks CNI lasers, because you coming, the things become more interesting.
Yes, I don't want to complian anyone, anything,Customer only need us do better and better, this is what Laser-wave always tring. I am sure compare any time any where, we all want good quality and cheaper prices, so compare never stop, compare also the best way to know each other, just like Bridge said before, we like compare and thanks all of you reply, that will make us do better and better products, thanks for all of you join , just like Pitts said:" time will prove it", yes, time will prove all thing.
I am really suiprise is：


Why a customer always said your products not good? Why? Spy? My god. Just like you said CNI did lasers more than 10 years, yes, Laser-wave only more than 1 years, why before Phill buy from laser-wave also say CNI’s laser not well? Thinks it , if customer compare and say no to CNI, CNI think they are Spy? Unbelievable.
Yes, thanks for compare, because compare the laserworld become different, we like it, if no compare, we had no choice, thanks for compare, we had more choice, I am sure the people here all know the compare Law, I only want to say through compare let all of us do better.
Thanks again, all of you reply is very very important for us, that will promote us do better and better later.
Best regards!
Bridge

He told me to try to buy more from us several times.If he don't think the lasers are good,I think he won't buy from us.I know each product won't be perfect,also CNI's,we all CNI colleague have confidence to meet all the specs the customer need from us.
Time will prove all.Thanks all to spend your time to see my words.

Best regards.