Who did CONANs show

[Laserman532]

It is my understanding that regs do apply for performers. Different rules apply, but rules still apply for performers. Its still a big ole NO NO to hit a performer in the face with a laser.

"performers" must be "informed" of the "dangers" (I have and would request a signed release for them to break the 3 meter rule) If the audience (not considered "informed" performers) were illuminated (even if no injury occurred) by an irresponsible operator (LSO) then he should be held responsible for wreckless endangerment and credentials stripped (and placed in the same area as Barry Bonds HR records should be) If "audience" incident occurred (with injury) then the operator (LSO) will suffer the legal wrath (if any... brought forth). Under either condition the state officials should pursue issue (it is what they are paid to do...enforce the laws). Which F's it for EVERYONE. NO association or STATE REGULATIONS can control PERSONAL ETHICS or INTEGRITY. "Now it is the time on Sprockets in which we dance"

[clandestiny]

Hayden, my analisis thus far hasn't concluded anyone was hit in the face directly by a laser scanned or static-
I my opionion the pictures jon has posted revealed incident or secondary illumination-
not direct exposure

[Laserman532]

Hayden, my analisis thus far hasn't concluded anyone was hit in the face directly by a laser scanned or static-
I my opionion the pictures jon has posted revealed incident or secondary illumination-
not direct exposure

illumination is illumination (light in eyeballs) weather direct, indirect, scattered or diffuse, now you are going down the exposure limit path which involves "legal audience scanning techniques" (technical issue which requires data..that NO ONE HAS). Jon's picture DOESEN"T LIE! (unless photo shopped)

[mixedgas]

[QUOTE=Laserman532;40847]"performers" must be "informed" of the "dangers" (I have and would request a signed release for them to break the 3 meter rule) If the audience (not considered "informed" performers) were illuminated (even if no injury occurred) by an


We STILL NEED the picture of Brian Williams being illuminated, its a NO BRAINER, the scan is directly on his face, on the episode I saw.

Steve

[clandestiny]

yes i await the missing episode- and hard data, which i doubt can ever be furnished - we know the old eye o meter can not possibly geneate hard data on light, illumination, and or exposure levels, i'm making a best guestimate for purposes of this discussion that the exposure was under the limit based on its non direct nature and size of the actual illumination

[Laserman532]

[quote=mixedgas;40858]

"performers" must be "informed" of the "dangers" (I have and would request a signed release for them to break the 3 meter rule) If the audience (not considered "informed" performers) were illuminated (even if no injury occurred) by an


We STILL NEED the picture of Brian Williams being illuminated, its a NO BRAINER, the scan is directly on his face, on the episode I saw.

Steve

No picture necessary, if you saw it...I believe it happened, of course any facial illumination it is unethical and unprofessional and dog gone it...DOWNRIGHT DANGEROUS! (if they weren't informed as a "performer") But may be they were.

I have HAD TO ADMIT "performers" within the 3 meter limit MANY times, But I informed them and did EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO ENSURE THAT THEIR EYEBALLS WERE NEVER IN ANY DANGER (as well as clothing and skin). I was ethical and responsible. That is the nature of this business. INTENTIONAL or IRRESPONSIBLE is a WHOLE ANOTHER TOPIC. Like tracking aircraft with pointers...it is irresponsible. Legal issue set aside.

WAS THE AUDIENCE ILLUMINATED IS WHAT YOU MUST FIND OUT!

[Laserman532]

yes i await the missing episode- and hard data, which i doubt can ever be furnished - we know the old eye o meter can not possibly geneate hard data on light, illumination, and or exposure levels, i'm making a best guestimate for purposes of this discussion that the exposure was under the limit based on its non direct nature and size of the actual illumination

BULLSHIT...it don't work that way, with all due respect you need to go get your money back on that Rockwell course you took because you didn't learn anything. Your guestamite isn't worth its weight in diarreah. (and I mean that in a nice way)

[buffo]

Ok guys,

I found a photo of the culprit. The photo was altered to protect the guilty.

OMG! The culprit is actually the TECHNO-VIKING!

That means Haden is the Techno Viking! Quick - someone call CNN! (If you haven't seen the video in the link yet, you need to hold out for about a minute or so before he makes his entrance, but when he shows up, compare his image to the picture above and tell me they're not the same person...)

And if you've already seen the Techno Viking video, then have a look at this clip (with captions) that explains what is really going on...

Adam

[clandestiny]

laserman- thats what I'm saying- re-read the statement that you quoted from me- before i said guesstimate i stated the old eyeball-o-meter was worthless as we all know- and could not possibly be used to generate hard data- I then said my guesstimate- for purposes of this discussion only-

WOW, my statement was there for everyone to see- who are now reading this-

You seem to have had a respectible carreer in photonics and the show community-
but I have to say I don't even know where your comming from when you are not reading what I wrote-

You quoted it- its right there for everyone to see-

[dsli_jon]

OMG! The culprit is actually the TECHNO-VIKING!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHahahaha ROFL!!! - that was good Adam - I don't know Hayden well enough personally to have said that directly, but now that you'll take the heat for it... - Paul, that whole post was hilarious... Hahahaha..

Really, I only WISH it HAD been Hayden doing the gig - I doubt any part of it would have been done ILLEGALLY (cause, remember guys, our CDRH Variance does NOT 'trump' any State-mandated requirements - their 'implied' approval for us to perform laser shows, is CONDITIONAL on us getting approvals ALL THE WAY - FAA, State - even if 'Technoviking' showed up, but was a Fire Marshall, he WOULD have the CDRH-backed authority to 'dis-allow' our fx, IF he thought they presented a fire hazard (ie 40 Watts in a ballroom with 8' ceilings and 'crepe-paper' decorations hangin from the ceiling, etc) - So the State Regs WERE relevant in this case...

So, I'm sorry - this show was performed ILLEGALLY - stating that on the basis of CDRH mandating you'd still be subject to NYS regs in this case, so un-registered = illegal, and with what I feel comfortable in asserting, at LEAST objectionable fx, the least of which being the direct hit to Conans' eyeball, regardless of being direct or bounced - what MATTERS is the MPE levels - for performers, audience, technicians - which, of course, we'll never know - nonetheless..

It is my understanding that regs do apply for performers. Different rules apply, but rules still apply for performers. Its still a big ole NO NO to hit a performer in the face with a laser.

...much more so fx that COULD (and DID) hit a performer - or ANYONE - in the EYE - without APPROVAL...

my analisis thus far hasn't concluded anyone was hit in the face directly by a laser scanned or static- I my opionion the pictures jon has posted revealed incident or secondary illumination- not direct exposure

Well, buddy - just watch the video again and again, from where I took the stills - he was hit by BOTH scanned fx AND a direct (though, yes, just a portion, off a 'mirror-corner') reflected (INCIDENT) beam - that wasn't laser 'speckle' off of a par-can... and remember, the ClassII limit - for PERFORMERS - is less than 1mW - WAS the MPE exceeded for that mili-flash to his eye? We'll never know - but I still feel comfortable in asserting, sure as shyte, NYS and CDRH would pop a vessel over that pic... And what of the OTHER, WORSE-contact fx nite Steve refs??? Only point "senior jon' was 'ranting' about (I liked that, BTW - good little 'dig' there Paul.. ) was that I just hate seeing hack work done - ESPECIALLY by SUPPOSEDLY 'ethical co's CLAIMING to hold to the standards of ILDA, cause all it does is make it harder for ALL of us -

This operator although failing to file- may otherwise be a good laerist?
we'll see who he is-that fact that he made a big mistake and didn't file will fall on him- point being I dont yet see this as a big o shit moment for the industry.

causing an uproar can possibly cause more damage than any alleged wrongdoing.

i started with lasers in 94- i think about the exact time jon did-

And I hope it does NOT get to BE an oshit moment - but how stupid and irresponsible to do such a high-profile gig and try and 'slip it under the radar' - and THEN go wild with close-proximity and DIRECT-CONTACT fx!!!! (I'm sure the eye was NOT intentional - but the Jan 11th clip (now gone) showed beam-palming / dancing FACE-IN inside a beam-cone / fans that WAS INTENTIONAL / PLANNED - withOUT permisson...) Zero allegations - just watch the videos.

So, ok, I have now CONFIRMED my findings of yesterday - SPOKE to the Operator - but did NOT confront him about the eye-hit, nor the file-failure - he is a good guy, normally a very straight-shooter, and he was rather 'down' cause he just came off quitting a Tour he'd been on where he was being mis-treated by some a-hole producer or ??? - to the point that he said 'fkit, I'm outta here' (good for him, but, poor guy...) and I was not about to 'add to his pain' - NOR am I going to blow him in to NYS - LATER ON, after, hopefully, all blows over with NYS, I might tell him about the 'bullet he dodged' - including these vids / pix - I am SURE he'd SHITHIMSELF if he saw those pix... cause good-guy or not, and 'we-all-make-mistakes' or not, it was STILL a BAD CALL, STILL irresponsible, and SHOULD NOT be done again - am I being a dick??

If anything, I am more disappointed in the BIG 'ILDA-Member' Sho Co. who WON this, #1 for NOT filing - really THEIR responsibility, in this case, NOT his - and for #2, being so CHEAP with him - can you IMAGINE - a $multi-million Sho Co, cuts our measily-little throat for $5K, breaks NYS law, (to be CHEAP) AND the conditions of their Variance, and then pay this guy SO little, that he prolly said fkit, and just shot his shooters...NOT condoning, under those circumstances, but, BOOO to the HACKS from YYZ! (whoops, I said too much..) (and kudos to anyone who 'decodes' that)

No confirmation from NBC yet, about WHAT the beams / scans were doing in the audience, but based on knowing this guy / his rep, I feel comfortable posturing that his 'worst sins' were on stage - I doubt he'd have been 'blasting retinas' in the audience, too, but anyhoo... I just hope no harm comes to him from this wreck of a show, and he will 'shore-up' next time and uphold his license.

'Nuff said.

Oh, yeah, PS- Paul: we're about equal in our 'time-in' - I built my first 'pro' projector / install / did first 'pro' (paid) show, as DSLS, in '93...I think you and I are gonna get along just fine! Whattya like to drink, BTW? Me, I like Tequila (Petrone, Cabo, etc) and Guinness (but not necessarily together!) - If we ever meet at a LEM, I owe ya a pint!

peace..

- J