TraceIT tutorial

[Pitopito]

Bill, know this is a bit cheeky, but as you know many of us here aspire to owning Pangolin software but as amateurs its far beyond our reach. Is there any chance after the next gen software has been out for a while, you could maybe release the old version & control board under another name as an amateur program at much reduced cost. I'm sure this would help many people get on the ladder towards meaningful displays and maybe ultimately the latest Pangolin software if their employment takes them that way. I'm sure also perhaps cutting down the control channels to say maybe 2 lasers max simoultaneously would also help keep it in the amateur interest area.

As a Pangolin Flashback3 owner, I might say that this product is already on sale following your suggestions.
(I'm an amateur, and thanks to PL forum, I have discovered that Pangolin, with this card, is not just for pro)
TaceIT for Flashback3 can be downloaded absolutely free of charge and the board itself is a bargain, considering all the software in bundle (scaled down to drive just one board, but fully functional) and, not to mention, it drives the galvos stable and solid as a rock .

(Bill, you might send me the check later )

[Alsone]

Pitobio, you miss the point. Flashback is still extremely limited - no IDLA control only DMX, Flash Card or USB and cut down software.

It would be more useful to have a version of the older software that was feature limited in terms of the numbers of lasers it control than to have very basic software designed with the amateur in mind. Most consumer products miss the ball completely by losing the best features of the professional versions. The real trick is to give consumers professional features and control but limit the software in some way as to make it unattractive to the full professional purchaser - hence the reason why I suggested limiting the simoultaneous laser control to 2 lasers as one suggestion for one possible limitation that might limit its scope but not its functionality.

[James Lehman]

professional features and control .... unattractive

This looks like a job for LaserBoy!

http://hacylon.case.edu/laser/LaserB...07_26_2008.zip

James.

[decix]

James, I can't terminate LaserBoy. Neither the "Y" nor the "Z" on the german keyboard are accepted to confirm exit.
I really cannot control this app with all those special keys which are different from your layout.
A GUI is really needed.

[James Lehman]

James, I can't terminate LaserBoy. Neither the "Y" nor the "Z" on the german keyboard are accepted to confirm exit.
I really cannot control this app with all those special keys which are different from your layout.
A GUI is really needed.

Well crap! Don't give me a frowny face!

Are you using the most recent version?

I thought I fixed this stuff!

OK OK OK!!! I think I know how to make the mouse work with this. It's just going to take some time.

In the mean time, please communicate with me! I want this to be good for everyone.

No more frowny faces please!

You're killing me!

My idea is first to add mouse control to the menus that already exist. That should solve your problems. Then I want to make special graphics controls to use the mouse on that would allow you to control the specific thing you have cosen from the menu. You'll see! I have a plan. Just please be patient. I want you to like LaserBoy!

Please don't give up on me and get mad! Just talk to me. I am a resonable person.

James.

[Pitopito]

Pitobio, you miss the point. Flashback is still extremely limited - no IDLA control only DMX, Flash Card or USB and cut down software.

It would be more useful to have a version of the older software that was feature limited in terms of the numbers of lasers it control than to have very basic software designed with the amateur in mind. Most consumer products miss the ball completely by losing the best features of the professional versions. The real trick is to give consumers professional features and control but limit the software in some way as to make it unattractive to the full professional purchaser - hence the reason why I suggested limiting the simoultaneous laser control to 2 lasers as one suggestion for one possible limitation that might limit its scope but not its functionality.

I might be with you about your opinion regarding the software in general, but I don't understand your point about FB3 limits.
The card IS a ILDA controller, it is possible to control even the finest details of the ILDA output (distortion, rotation, blanking delay, color balance, safe scanning area, even things unknown to many other controllers). The only limits are that is not open source and the software on pc doesn't work with the card unplugged. (But the opposit is possible, the card can run a sequence unplugged from a pc)

[buffo]

Flashback is still extremely limited - no IDLA control only DMX, Flash Card or USB and cut down software.

Alsone, I think you are confused. The FB3 is not "limited" in any way. The software is not cut down; it's the full blown LA Studio software suite. Nothing is disabled.

Furthermore, there is no such thing as "ilda control" for a controller! The controller uses the ILDA port as an output port to send signals to the projector, not the other way around.

The signals that flow from the computer to the controller are normally sent via a USB cable, but in some cases (e.g. Full Auto, Riya PCI, QM-2000) the card actually plugs into an expansion slot in the computer. (Older controllers used to connect to the parallel port, but there are significant drawbacks to using the parallel port, which is why it's hardly ever used anymore.)

Have you actually used the FB3 yourself, or are you basing your comments on what you have read here on the forums? Because it seems pretty clear that you are misinformed about the FB3's abilities. If you do, in fact, own a Flashback3, then you are seriously missing out on a lot of the features it comes with.

The real trick is to give consumers professional features and control but limit the software in some way as to make it unattractive to the full professional purchaser

There isn't any "professional" version of the FB3. When you buy it, it's got *all* features enabled right out of the box. Perhaps you are thinking of the QM-2000 board, which comes in 3 different versions: intro, basic, and pro. But even with the QM-2000 intro board, you can still play back a show that was written using the pro level features. Those features are only locked out for creating or editing shows. Playback is not affected. And like I said, that has *nothing* to do with the FB3.

I suggested limiting the simoultaneous laser control to 2 lasers as one suggestion for one possible limitation that might limit its scope but not its functionality.

Even if you had an LD-2000 pro system you would still need a separate controller for EACH projector that you wanted to control. The FB3 is no different. (The same thing goes for Mamba Black, or Full Auto, or any other hardware and software combo... You need a separate controller for each projector.)

You say that Pangolin is out of reach for the hobbyist. Yet there are several hobbyists here running Mamba Black with the EasyLase USB controller. That combination costs just over $850 (plus shipping), while you can get the FB3 controller from Pangolin, complete with the LA Studio software suite, for just $500. So how is that out of reach, exactly? It's $350 cheaper than Mamba!

I think you need to spend some more time researching the FB3. Clearly you don't understand all that it's capable of.

Adam

[Alsone]

Alsone, I think you are confused. The FB3 is not "limited" in any way. The software is not cut down; it's the full blown LA Studio software suite. Nothing is disabled.

Hi Adam,

When I said cut down I was comparing it (LA Studio) to the Showtime and LD2000 combination.

Furthermore, there is no such thing as "ilda control" for a controller! The controller uses the ILDA port as an output port to send signals to the projector, not the other way around.

I think you misunderstood, I was referring to the fact that on Flashback the displays are stored on a flash card which is inserted into the projector rather than the projector having an IDLA cable input from software running on a laptop. The disadvantage to this from my point of view is partially the number of cards you might need to store all of your displays (unless you erase and re-write them all the time) and also the capacity of the card. As I said in another thread on the subject, for a 6 or 7 hour party, can you really store all the needed files on one card - because if not, its pretty inconvenient to have to get a ladder out to a projector 1/2 way through a party to change a flash card.

Maybe a change over to SDHC as a card format would help here as they are small, cheap and capacities have just hit 32GB compared to 2GB for XD.

Have you actually used the FB3 yourself

I don't own FB3, no.

The real trick is to give consumers professional features and control but limit the software in some way as to make it unattractive to the full professional purchaser.

- There isn't any "professional" version of the FB3. When you buy it, it's got *all* features enabled right out of the box.

When I said about limiting features, I was referring to the possibility of Pangolin releasing the old LD2000 software at a cut down price for amateurs when the new version was out. Obviously, they'd want to disable some features to ensure pro's didn't just turn to this instead of the new software and this is what I was referring to and suggesting they might disable features most likely to be pro exclusive such as multiple laser control rather than cut down on important display animation features.

Finally, isn't flashback OEM exclusive in that it requires you to build the card into the projector? Thats OK if you're building but inconvenient if as an amateur you want to buy a complete projector to work out of the box.

[buffo]

When I said cut down I was comparing it (LA Studio) to the Showtime and LD2000 combination.

Ahhh.. I see. Well, LA Studio is actually a completely separate software suite apart from Showtime. When Pangolin first bought out LA Studio Design, they ported the LA Studio software to the QM-2000 board. It was only later on, when they developed the FB3, that they wrote drivers so it would work with the FB3 as well. In fact, LA Studio is (and always has been, so long as Pangolin owned it) a *free* software upgrade for LD-2000 owners. And now, it's free with the purchase of an FB3 as well.

As I understand it, Pangolin wanted to hire some of the programmers from LA Studio, but they were bound by non-compete clauses in their contracts. So Pangolin bought the whole company! Of course, that meant that they inherited the LA Studio software as well. I suppose they could have tried to sell it as an add-on for existing LD-2000 owners, but instead they chose to give it away for free. (Pretty cool...)

So LA Studio really isn't a "cut down" version of Showtime. It's a completely separate product that was initially developed by a whole separate company. And it's pretty darn powerful software, too. In fact, there are several things that are actually easier to do in Showrider than they are in Showtime. The problem is that Showrider is, well, erm... "Complex" is a good word I guess. There are several different ways of doing things, and you need to play with the software for a while before you get a feel for what works best.

I think you misunderstood, I was referring to the fact that on Flashback the displays are stored on a flash card which is inserted into the projector rather than the projector having an IDLA cable input from software running on a laptop.

See my other post in the laser software thread. This is absolutely not true. The FB3 *can* be run in stand-alone mode, but it will *also* function as a regular controller just like every other controller on the market. You connect it to the computer and it runs the projector in real time.

Also, you've got your cables backwards. The ILDA cable carries analog signals from the controller to the projector. It's a 25-pin cable, so many people confuse it with a parallel cable. But remember, ILDA is analog signals only. It is the OUTPUT of a controller (to the projector).

Conversely, the INPUT to a controller is always going to be a digital link. These days it's normally a USB cable, but there are other controllers that actually plug into a slot on the motherboard. (Some really old controllers actually use the parallel port to send digital data to the controller. This causes no end of confusion, because the parallel port uses the same 25-pin cable that the ILDA standard specifies.) Still, the input to the controller is always going to be digital.

The disadvantage to this from my point of view is partially the number of cards you might need to store all of your displays (unless you erase and re-write them all the time) and also the capacity of the card.

If stand-alone operation were the only mode of operation, then yeah, that would be a major pain. But it doesn't work that way. Stand alone operation is an added feature, but the vast majority of FB3 owners here on PL do not use it in stand-alone mode. They connect a laptop to the FB3 via a USB cable and use it as a real time controller.

When I said about limiting features, I was referring to the possibility of Pangolin releasing the old LD2000 software at a cut down price for amateurs when the new version was out.

The LD-2000 software is tied to the custom hardware on the QM-2000 board itself. The software is useless without that hardware - it won't even run unless the QM-2000 hardware is there. The QM-2000 is actually an entirely separate computer - complete with it's own OS - contained on a single PCI card. It's so robust that once you start a show the host computer can crash and the show will continue. In fact, so long as you continue to supply it with power, you can actually remove the QM-2000 board from the computer and the show will keep running. The software is the interface to that on-board computer inside the QM-2000.

So until they completely replace the QM-2000 hardware with something new, there's no way that they're going to be able to release an "old version" of anything.

Now, they do have 3 levels of performance on the QM-2000 board, and as I posted earlier, those performance limits are only on what you can create or edit, not what you play back. So for example, if you create a show using a pro board and make it incredibly complex, using all sorts of advanced features that are only available with the Pro board, you could then play that same show on *any* QM-2000 system - even on an intro board.

Finally, isn't flashback OEM exclusive in that it requires you to build the card into the projector?

No. Again, see my other post. You can put it in a separate enclosure, or you can build it into your projector. It's small enough that it will fit in just about any old box. True, it would be convenient if it were also sold in a nice box straight from Pangolin (and you may well be able to order it that way, I'm not sure), but it's not that hard to stick it in a project box from radio shack either...

Thats OK if you're building but inconvenient if as an amateur you want to buy a complete projector to work out of the box.

I'll grant you that it would be nice if you could buy it in a plastic box. For example, the EasyLase USB controller can be ordered as a bare OEM board, or for 50 euros more you can get it mounted in a plastic box. Personally, I think 50 euros is a bit much for a plastic box, but I can see where it would help someone looking for a plug-and-play solution.

Adam

[tony220171]

Even works with TraceIT Demo Thanx