Pangolin User Meeting Results (and more Free Laser Shows)

[carmangary]

The free shows will come in time.

[Pangolin]

The free shows will come in time.

I hate to keep going back and forth on this same topic here Gary, but, well, let me make my point and then ask you a question.

My point is this. Free software has existed in this industry for a very long time. The LFI Player has existed for 8 years that I know of. Within the LaserFreak community there is HE Laserscan, Popplescan, and probably a half-dozen other open source or free laser software programs, all using the ILDA format. Even Pangolin has had two separate open source projects since around 2002, that we did as an experiment to see what would be the uptake.

The realization I had while making my set of postings was this: Despite the fact that open source and free software has existed in this industry for a very long time, there really aren't that many laser shows available for the free and/or open source software. Instead what I see is more than 350 shows freely available for the so-called expensive commercial software.

So I guess my question for you is this. You say free shows will come in time. Well, how much longer do you think it will take?

Best regards,

William Benner

[carmangary]

So, what you are trying to tell me is that people are only going to be satisified with expensive Pangolin software forever and will never use free software? That is pretty arrogant of you to think that.

I have seen the free software out there. There is a reason I am not using any of it. It isn't up to my standards of decent software. I suspect that is why others have not used it as well.

When will the shows for free software begin to emerge? That will be once the free software is on par with the software that is being sold and people realize they can get buy without having to spend $1000 to draw lines.

Writing software is my hobby and doesn't cost me anything other than a little time. Spaghetti will eventually get there. Less than a year ago I was told that I had no chance of making any decent laser show software. Yet, here we are now and I am getting emails from all over the world from people starting to use it as well as hardware companies GIVING me hardware so that I can make sure that it works properly. My website gets about 500 hits per week. So, you tell me now that no one is interested in free software.

I hate to say it, but of all the hardware and software vendors out there, Pangolin has been the least friendly in my endeavor. Why is that?

[Stuka]

A request....

Folks, this is a thread STARTED by Pangolin about the recent Pangolin User Meeting and comparison of various Pangolin products. As a user of several of their products, I (and I'm sure several others) appreciate the information that has been exchanged so far!

Please, can we keep THIS thread aligned with the original subject, and save "Pangolin vs. the guys making free software" exchanges for another thread? I would really hate to see THIS one deteriorate into another multipage exchange that winds up having little or nothing to do with the original subject matter!!

This is by NO means intended to bash the independent software developers - you guys are doing some dedicated, awesome work - which is part of the reason you have your own dedicated section on this forum!

Thanks

Randy

A very satisfied user of Pangolin products

[300EVIL]

A request....

Folks, this is a thread STARTED by Pangolin about the recent Pangolin User Meeting and comparison of various Pangolin products. As a user of several of their products, I (and I'm sure several others) appreciate the information that has been exchanged so far!

Please, can we keep THIS thread aligned with the original subject, and save "Pangolin vs. the guys making free software" exchanges for another thread? I would really hate to see THIS one deteriorate into another multipage exchange that winds up having little or nothing to do with the original subject matter!!

This is by NO means intended to bash the independent software developers - you guys are doing some dedicated, awesome work - which is part of the reason you have your own dedicated section on this forum!

Thanks

Randy

A very satisfied user of Pangolin products

Couldn't have said it better myself.....

[Anthony]

Couldn't have said it better myself.....

what couldn't you have said better??? PANGOLIN PANGOLIN
PAAAAANGOOOOLINNNNNNNNN


wuahahaha burp :-)

[Pangolin]

So, what you are trying to tell me is that people are only going to be satisified with expensive Pangolin software forever and will never use free software? That is pretty arrogant of you to think that.

WHOA! Gary, I am not trying to TELL you anything? I am ASKING a question! Engaging in a dialog! (or at least trying to...)

I have shared my own observations. Frankly, my observations could very well be wrong, that's why I phrased it as a question and not a statement. The fact of the matter is, I don't know the answer. I am somewhat looking for the answer. Heck, there might not even be an answer! But since you seem to be of the opinion that "the free shows will come in time", I figured I would ask the question.

I have seen the free software out there. There is a reason I am not using any of it. It isn't up to my standards of decent software. I suspect that is why others have not used it as well.

I am not so sure about that. As you may know, I go to LaserFreak meetings, just as I go to Photon Lexicon meetings. I support both, in ways that I can.

While at LaserFreak, and on the LaserFreak forum, I have seen plenty of users of HE Laserscan and Popplescan as well. And although I have only seen screen shots of your software posted on PL, and only seen HE Laserscan from a distance of around 10 feet, my impression is that HE is more powerful than Spaghetti (not meant to be a jab -- just meant to say that my impression is that there is free software with some relative degree of power).

But my point is that even with the miriad of free software that is out there, and has been out there, and in use by lots of users (at least what looks like lots of users to me), I haven't seen that many shows available on these free platforms. That's my observation. I have given you my observation and raised the question. If you think that the reason is because HE and Popple and the half-dozen other free programs are simply not up to snuff, and that people simply can't create shows with them, then that's your answer, and I can accept that. No problem man!

So, you tell me now that no one is interested in free software.

I didn't say that, did I? I am only questioning the number of free laser shows that will come as a result of free software. In fact, you may be right. But that was my question, and I was only wondering when you though it would happen.

Apparently you believe it will happen as a result of Spaghetti. You may be right. History will certainly show it one way or another. But I am not sure that we can honestly say that there is a lack of free softare that allows people to draw lines right now.

I hate to say it, but of all the hardware and software vendors out there, Pangolin has been the least friendly in my endeavor. Why is that?

Really? How have we been unfriendly? It was me who gave you a copy of the ILDA File Format in the first place, along with information on how to implement it. And it was me who offered (in another post) to give you a copy of the LD2000 SDK which would allow you to not only access the functions on the QM2000 board, but also to quickly and easily add advanced features to your program. Aside from these things, I believe you and I have had productive email exchanges over the past few years, and you must admit that every time you have written to me, you have gotten an honest and complete answer.

Gary I think you have taken my post the wrong way. My post in no way was a jab against what you do. I often applaud people doing their own thing, and I think there are not enough of them in the world. It was merely a question about what it is that you think, and why. I think questions should be acceptable on this forum, don't you?

Anyway, lets steer this back into productive (and relevant) territory. Keep an eye on the "What's new at Pangolin" page on our web site for information about when we will have the shows up there. We will also add the shows Adam sent and a bunch of others as well.

Best regards,

William Benner

[badger1666]

i thought i had stopped in a shcool yard for a minute
with this kind of banter,
stop picking on bill he a cool guy and will help anyone he can.
gary why dont you start a trend and give some shows away and maybe others will follow and to anyone else out there does not matter how good or bad you think your shows are just share them does not matter what others think, as soon as winter comes and i will have more time and will make an effort to make some shows to share

[Lasermad]

My questions about pangolin so its still on topic :-)

ANDY CON - bill will the new software enable fb3 users to control more than one fb3 at once? like LD2000 users can?
DAVE : Yes Andy, that is correct. As long as ONE of the FB3's has a license, you are set.. Personally, we have had 5 running off the one computer for a show


The FB3 is on its 3rd generation as far as photonlexicon availibility is is concerned ..... 1) the original kit with older style memory card 2) the newer bigger memory card verison and 3) the brand new version with different connector just shown recently

If you own a LIVE PRO USB licence like i do for the original version ...and i buy some of the newer types will it all be compatible , i presume it will but just looking for confimation .

ALSO live pro USB licences , as i understand it th Fb3 kit is HOBBY only ...so livequick , and the LA studio as its packaged now must not be used for commerical shows .... however LIVEPRO USB has a commercial licence and CAN be used commercially.

PAUL

[White-Light]

Bill can I ask you my questions from the previous page, I appreciate you were rushing out so may have missed them.

If you didn't but can't answer them at this time, just say, its ok.

1. I can understand with FB3 being a low cost system why perhaps you don't supply the LD2000's effects libararies on CD with the FB3 package. But will it ever be possible to make all the same library of effects available as downloads to FB3 users so FB3 users can download and burn their own effect libraries and thus have a good resource of effects on which to draw on to make their own shows? Perhaps categorise downloads as CD1, CD2 etc.

2. How does Pangolin Beyond fit into the whole scheme of LD2000 vs FB3?

3. Any news on the Beyond Beta testing? Its my birthday coming up in a few weeks (big 40) and I was kind of hoping my BBQ laser party could provide an ideal time for some Beta testing. (albeit you'd have to lend me a FB3 controller - that I will return when you declare beta testing over). I'd also be happy to produce HD video of any element you want of Beyond in action, with your prior approval before any posting of course. PM me if need be.