Pangolin User Meeting Results (and more Free Laser Shows)

[buffo]

I'm interested in any information re: Beyond beta testing as well. I signed up for it earlier in the year, but from what I understand, the software isn't quite ready yet. (More features to add, maybe?)

Any details on the status of Beyond, Bill?

Adam

[Anthony]

I'm interested in any information re: Beyond beta testing as well.
Any details on the status of Beyond, Bill?

We all are verry interested in any info or demo/video's etc.

[Pangolin]

Bill can I ask you my questions from the previous page, I appreciate you were rushing out so may have missed them.

Ahh yes. I guess I overlooked your question -- answered part of it, but not the other...

1. I can understand with FB3 being a low cost system why perhaps you don't supply the LD2000's effects libararies on CD with the FB3 package. But will it ever be possible to make all the same library of effects available as downloads to FB3 users so FB3 users can download and burn their own effect libraries and thus have a good resource of effects on which to draw on to make their own shows? Perhaps categorise downloads as CD1, CD2 etc.

What we have now is two completely separate sofware platforms, with two completely separate development paths. LD2000 has effectively been in development since 1992 and its implementation and effects are, lets say, dependent on the hardware platform which uses a Motorola processor. These effects just don't work with the FB3 platform which uses an intel-compatible processor. BUT, for the FB3, you have access to a different piece of software with effects -- that software being LAStudio.

LAStudio does have a concept of "effect libraries" and in fact all of the effects from LivePRO will work with LAStudio. LivePRO users should find a "Effect" or maybe "Key Effects" folder and all of those will work with LAStudio. And I can't remember, but I think we also give out that same group of effects with LAStudio. Sorry guys, I just can't remember. But you guys can help me and help yourselves too. Just look in the Effects or Key Effects folder and you (or at least some of you) will find effects there. You are free to share them as you wish. You can also make up your own effects and save them in those folders and share them among yourselves.

Getting more to your point, one thing that BEYOND will do is unify all of this stuff because the effects won't be dependent on the processor used on the hardware. BUT! The interesting thing is that we really have taken a huge turn with BEYOND. It basically redefines how laser shows are done. Right now I can say that there are no effects libraries because they aren't needed. Interesting concept eh?

2. How does Pangolin Beyond fit into the whole scheme of LD2000 vs FB3?

Well, you are kind of mixing a few things. LD2000 is a software package. The FB3 is hardware. But trying to answer your question in a different way, BEYOND as a software package will work with Pangolin hardware. This means it will work with the QM2000 or the FB3. So it will work with both.

3. Any news on the Beyond Beta testing? Its my birthday coming up in a few weeks (big 40) and I was kind of hoping my BBQ laser party could provide an ideal time for some Beta testing. (albeit you'd have to lend me a FB3 controller - that I will return when you declare beta testing over). I'd also be happy to produce HD video of any element you want of Beyond in action, with your prior approval before any posting of course. PM me if need be.

Congratulations and happy birthday! I am a bit past you at 43.

Anyway, you would need some kind of Pangolin hardware in order to use our software. BETA testing should start within a few months and I have considered posting videos of the various portions of BEYOND, just to wet people's lips. At the same time, I don't want to get too ahead of ourselves. As soon as we release anything -- even a partial something -- our competitors will get busy trying to copy it. (Sorry, that's the way it works. See http://www.pangolin.com/LD2000/software_innovation.htm for an abbreviated list of things we came up with first...)

Bill

[Anthony]

BETA testing should start within a few months

So no intruduction later this year like the banner advertised?
damn... i have to start biting my fingernails again :-)

[highvolt]

Hey Bill,

I just visited the website with the innovations.. What is the "Flashback 3 XE (External Edition of the popular Flashback 3) - September 2008" product that came out ??

I'm assuming an FB3 in a packaged up in box or something ??

While everyone is asking questions about Beyond.. nobody seemed to ask what pricerange it is supposed to be in.

So hereby.. What pricerange will "Beyond" be in ?
(and will there be a free version for hobbyist like me that dont do anything commercially and live in their basement?)


PS: you could help out Carmangary and myself by releasing an API to the FB3 hardware (with a proper NDA in place if necessary)

[soforene]

.... with BEYOND. It basically redefines how laser shows are done....

You mean you've changed the header info again !?!
You know who will get his knickers in a twist once more !!

[allthatwhichis]

Hey, watch the lighter fluid in here...

[buffo]

Bill isn't the one that is dangerous around lighter fluid, Aaron. In fact, I thought he handled the entire matter with considerable patience. (More than I had, that's for sure.)

Adam

[Pangolin]

I'm assuming an FB3 in a packaged up in box or something ??

Yes that's right. There is another post, I think in the Lounge, that discusses it. We only have one picture right now, and it's on our web site.

It came out just before the ILDA meeting. Buffo saw it and he can comment.

While everyone is asking questions about Beyond.. nobody seemed to ask what pricerange it is supposed to be in.

We haven't exactly decided yet. I think LD2000 PRO users will get it for free, and others might have to pay something. I am just not sure yet what the BEYOND software will cost. For the hardware, it's just the FB3 and QM2000 hardware, so in some ways of thinking, that's the biggest cost of any package. If you already have an FB3 or QM2000, it shouldn't be very expensive...

One thing is, BEYOND is completely scalable, so we can really slice and dice the product, and serve it up in various forms and at various price levels.

(and will there be a free version for hobbyist like me that dont do anything commercially and live in their basement?)

You guys should know my comitment to PL and LaserFreak members. I am sure there will be some attractive option for the BEYOND software.

PS: you could help out Carmangary and myself by releasing an API to the FB3 hardware (with a proper NDA in place if necessary)

I am not sure if I wrote to you or Gary privately about this or not. I did write to someone, but I just can't remember who...

In fact, here's the situation. The FB3 -- like other hardware, is just a single box. So if you have two applications that want to access it at the same time, who wins? In the case of the QM2000 hardware, this is handled through the LD2000 SDK. You can have a number of applications all running at the same time and, to some extent, all accessing the hardware at the same time. We don't have a similar DLL for the FB3 so -- realistically, you can only use it with one program at a time.

We resolve this with the BEYOND EXE, which is a "single program" that really contains a number of applications (for example, two separate drawing programs, timeline, live, etc.). So it really is a single program. What we will do is provide a method whereby external applications can "talk through" BEYOND to the hardware. Also, then it will be possible to do the BEYOND things, just as people can make truly advanced applications pretty easily by using the over 200 functions in our LD2000 SDK.

So right now we just don't have an easy way for you to talk to the FB3, but we will in the form of BEYOND. Incidentally, you will also be able to talk to the QM2000 and QM2000.NET through BEYOND as well.

Also, as an aside, even people using sound cards have a similar problem. If two programs access the sound card at the same time, what happens? As you can see, it is a little bit "undefined". What a sound card will do is "mix" the two inputs. Well, that's *something*, until you remember that we are swinging around a fricken laser beam here... That's something that is often overlooked. We make laser-specific hardware with the recognition that we are swinging around a fricken laser beam, with fail-safe design techniques to prevent the possibility of an unsafe exposure.

So whenever you have one piece of hardware but multiple possible "things" controlling it, you need (in the case of lasers) a safe way of controlling all of these things. The LD2000 SDK is the safe way for the QM2000 hardware, and BEYOND will be the safe way for FB3 and QM2000 hardware.

You mean you've changed the header info again !?!
You know who will get his knickers in a twist once more !!

LOL!! BIG TIME!! LOL!!!

Why yes, in fact, we have changed the headers once again. We have changed everything. The files are completely different. The philosophy is completely different. Basically, everything is different except for the programmers involved. BUT, it will directly load all of the old LD and LD2000 frames (as well as ILDA) and there is a way to import shows made in Showitme. It doesn't exactly load the shows, since the philosophy of show creation is so different. But it can import them...

Thanks for making me laugh soforene, and I always enjoy your avitars!


Bill

[buffo]

Re: the new FB3 enclosure... Bill did indeed show us one of these at the Pangolin User's meeting onboard the ILDA cruise.

If you've ever seen the metal box that comes with the Pangolin QM-2000.net package, then you already know what the FB3 enclosure looks like, as it's nearly identical except for size. (The FB3 enclosure is obviously smaller.)

Basically, the new box is made of heavy gauge metal (aluminum, I think) that has been either painted or anodized black. (Actually, I'm pretty sure it's anodized.) The box is about the size of a deck of playing cards, though it has significant weight to it.

There is a slot in the side so you can insert your smart media card, and there is a USB port to connect the FB3 to your computer. On the other side is the ILDA output port. There is no connection for an external power supply, as all FB3's from now on will be bus-powered via the USB cable.

The entire package is *very* robust. Bill mentioned that you could probably drive a car over the enclosure and not harm the FB3 inside, and after inspecting the box I'm inclined to agree with him. It's quite heavy.

From what I understand, this box will be available for future FB3 purchases as a low cost option, or possibly even a free upgrade. (Bill said he was still looking into costs on that.) As for buying one to use with an older FB3, that is more problematic, since some of the early FB3's may not fit. Bill didn't mention if he was going to offer the box as a separate item to buy or not.

Adam