Spaghetti - Spaghetti - Spaghetti

[buffo]

White-light;

I agree that your bug report was completely above board. I was trying my best to give Gary the benefit of the doubt regarding the other, clarifying post where you mentioned that Spaghetti had become unusable. Gary sounded upset in his reply to your post where you mentioned that you couldn't use his software and would have to abandon it's use if the bug wasn't fixed. I honestly think you only meant to stress that the bug was serious enough to make the software unusable, but nevertheless Gary took it as a personal attack. By "written better", I only meant that it was unfortunate that he mis-read your intent.

Nevertheless, I agree with you that his response to your post was unprofessional and wholly inappropriate. If he *really* was so interested in fixing his software, he would have welcomed the bug report.

In fact, that's one thing I have to give James Lehman credit for: He really listened to bug reports, and did his best to fix them ASAP. Sure, he wasn't all that receptive to the idea of adding a GUI to LaserBoy, but if you found a bug in the software he was all over it. Gary could learn something from that I think...

Gary;

If you think this started today, you are *completely* out of touch with reality. This is a continuation of your antics that led to your "adios" post last fall. And all that mess ended up being a continuation of your antics from early in 2008. You think you just popped up on the radar yesterday? Sheesh!

The really funny this is that back then (early 2008) I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. I retracted all my statements and offered a full, public apology. I thought we could work past our differences, and I defended you a lot over the next several months.

However, after your farewell post last fall it was pretty clear to me that you weren't interested in any sort of contructive criticism. You are either unwilling or unable to control your negativity. That's really sad, in a way, but it is *your* problem, not ours. The rest of the forum knows how to behave. Hopefully one day you will learn as well.

Also, Anthony is right. Don't flatter yourself. You represent a tiny fraction of my posting history. I'll wager that I've written a lot more about DZ, Dave and Aijii, heck, even Rick Gebhardt, than I ever have about you!

EDIT: Just noticed your "Adios - Mark II" post. Ok - if that's the way you feel, then there's nothing left to argue about, is there?

Adam

[mophead]

I both frequent and have admin'd many forums all across the internet with various different subject matter. The one thing that holds true; The forums are rife with threads just like this.

Please make an "I'm Leaving" *and* an "I'm Coming Back" thread. Sticky it in TheLounge for all to see. That way, anyone leaving or coming back can do so in the thread at the top of the "social" forum for everyone to see. Everyone knows ahead of time where all members are, when they left (and why) and if (and why) they are coming back. There should be no post whoring in said threads....just leaving and/or coming back. Post whoring would be off topic in a thread such as that (unless one was leaving or coming).

I always met account deletion request with a huge hell no, along with a prompt password and account email change, thus respecting the request along with no possibility of sending a forgoten password re-activation.

just my .0000002

[flecom]

oh comeon people, chill out, i mean seriously, this isnt exactly a hobby with a huge following so shouldent we all try and get along

additionally, its an internet forum, its text based, jokes dont always come across as initally intended, so, you know, chill

[Things]

Ugh there goes the chances for hobbyists. Both James and Gary are gone now, and Gary no longer has Spaghetti on his site

'tis quite a shame

[White-Light]

Ugh there goes the chances for hobbyists. Both James and Gary are gone now, and Gary no longer has Spaghetti on his site

'tis quite a shame

It is a shame but unfortunately some people can't agree to disagree or take constructive criticism.

Gary seems to hate Pangolin with a passion and apparently can't help but criticise Bill at every turn rather than just concentrating on developing his own software, which many of us appreciate more than he probably realises.

He seems to take constructive feedback as personal attack and then throws the toys out of the pram (baby buggy).

It hard to see how he can get along with the majority of us when there's no give or take in his views.

Its a pity because I'm sure most of us like Gary (myself included), when he's not attacking Bill or throwing a tantrum over feedback he doesn't like. Spaghetti is his baby and no-one likes criticism of something special to them but if something isn't working or needs improving then the only way you get forwards is with constructive criticism / feedback.

eg. A satelite tv forum for Freesat (a UK service). This is the feedback for the new Humax HDR Freesat receiver / recorder (on sale from November only):

12 pages of improved feature requests: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=941251

27 pages of bugs reports / discussions: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=939550

...and generally a forum full of the same:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/f...play.php?f=199


It's actually an excellent machine with only very minor / occassional problems overall but the reason why a majority of people go to the forum is to give feedback. A Humax rep reads the forums and feeds the bugs / feedback to the company.

I don't see Humax throwing the toys out of the pram over 12 full pages of improved feature requests and 27 pages of bug reports and a forum generally dominated by the same. Instead they use it as a platform to build upon and have promised upgraded features in the future and all credit to them for doing so. Pity Gary can't do the same with feedback for his software and learn to lay off Bill for having developed something truly special albeit at a cost to those who want it.

[Zoof]

I hope Gary realizes soon that wherever he goes there will be unappreciative people. In my experience it comes down to ignoring those who do not contribute constructive to what you're trying to achieve. Dealing with a user community can be pain in the ass - and when you're developing for free that SUCKS! Getting bug reports is great, but some people manage to get a tone in there like: "if you don't fix this or add that, your software's really lame". My guess is that those people don't code, can't appreciate the effort, don't understand how every version is a small victory and they probably have issues of their own and finds ways to frustrate others.

White-Light's example is clearly of an commercial company that has a lot more to gain from their user community and cannot afford to ignore them (let alone pull the plug).

When I released ZoofScope, there were mostly really enthusiastic people that gave me positive energy but there were also some reactions that showed no appreciation at all for what I had made, weren't going to us it but felt compelled to say something about it - fortunately I can't seem to remember the one that bugged me most.

It is great when people praise you into heaven, that is the only reward you get when working for free, but you simply can't expect that from most people.

[buffo]

Zoof;

I can't use your software (I don't have an easylase DAC), yet I *still* praise your work because I recognize the benefit it brings to the community. I also appreciate the difficulty involved. (While I don't code anymore, I *do* have a degree in Computer Science.) I also praised both James' and Gary's work, because their projects also benefitted the community.

I actually volunteered to help Gary early on in the development of Spaghetti. I put together a series of test frame and show files inMamba for him to pick apart. It was those early show files that allowed Gary to figure out how to add Mamba compatibility to Spaghetti. I did this despite the fact that I could not use his software to control my projector (no easylase DAC) and I didn't really have a need for his software anyway, because I was already running Pangolin by that point.

The key to this whole issue is that you and James have always continued to work on your software despite the fact that some people may have failed to praise you or had disparaging things to say about your projects in the past. Gary, on the other hand, has decided (on *more* than one occasion - remember the "Don't even think of asking me for Spaghetti" tagline that Gary used to have?) to withhold his software from the group as "punishment" for some constructive criticism he's received that rubbed him the wrong way. This is quite childish, in my opinion.

White-Light said it best - it's like a kid that throws a temper tantrum and tosses all his toys out of the baby buggy. Well, I'm *not* going to pick them up, and I don't think anyone else is either.

I truly appreciate the efforts of developers everywhere that are working on new tools to make laser shows easier to produce. And I have no problem helping those developers out (in whatever limited way I can) if they want my assistance. But if I've got to stroke the ego of every developer that comes along just so I can test drive the product, I think I'll pass. I'd rather give praise voluntarily - to the people that actually deserve it.

Things;

Fear not. There are other free laser show software projects in the pipeline. Steve Roberts has been working with the developer of the LFI player, and I believe that software will soon be released (with a users manual!) for all to experiment with.

Likewise, there are a few other developers here on PL that are working on various projects as well. Agilent-C has a show program he's working on, and Dchammonds has an abstract generator that he's recently released - plus there's still LaserBoy... (Despite the fact that James has posted his farewell on PL, he is still working on LaserBoy - releasing new versions and accepting bug reports.)

Mophead;

I seriously doubt that Spec will delete the account. After all, Gary may decide to return again. (He did once before.)

Adam

[White-Light]

Zoof if there's something for me to praise, I praise it.

I readily admit I'm grateful for Gary's work. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to fall down to my knees and lick his shoes as some great software god.

At the end of the day, I gave good honest and useful feedback. If Gary can't take that on board as constructive and use it to better his product rather than taking offence at the affront of someone who actually dared to suggest his product might actually contain a bug that renders it unusable, then maybe he needs to grow up and smell what he's shovelling.

...and lets face it, this wasn't about me.

His refusal to help me was him lashing out at this community as a whole for criticising him in other threads for his unfair criticism of Bill, who has and continues to go out of his way to help this community (I refer you most recently to the thread on the ILDA test patterns uploaded to the FTP server - "technically they're covered by our licence but in the interests of community spirit you can you can use them" (paraphrased)). All I see is a jealousy of Bill's software and constant digs based on that. Bill has the good manners not to react but when others defend him on his behalf and suggest that maybe Gary should leave off Bill and stick to his own thing, case of agreeing to disagree on many points, Gary has to lash out.

[keeperx]

#1, yes laserboy is still in active development
#2, Spaghetti is an amazing program and it sucks that that a few people continue to ruin it for the rest of us... why do people continue to push developers buttons and egg them on and argue.

There are only a few people in the world that have the skill, drive, desire, and mindset to write FREE software specifically designed for LASER SHOWS..

as a matter of fact ALL of them are either employed by a laser software company, or trying to make it on the PL.

but there are still people that insist of pushing buttons and testing the patients of these developers. Thats what really pisses me off.

[buffo]

why do people continue to push developers buttons and egg them on and argue.

Maybe because some developers are acting like jerks and deserve it? Dude, just because someone is a developer doesn't mean they get a free pass to act like an ass on the forums. Everyone has to play by the rules.

There are only a few people in the world that have the skill, drive, desire, and mindset to write FREE software specifically designed for LASER SHOWS. As a matter of fact ALL of them are either employed by a laser software company, or trying to make it on the PL.

Careful, Alec. You are making assertations that you have no way of proving. Also, you haven't been around long enough to know that there have been *lots* of other laser show software developers that are not active on PL. (Rick Gebhard springs to mind, for example.)

The developer of the LFI player was not a member of PL until *very* recently. And there are other developers that have fewer than 50 posts here, yet they are still working on their projects. Just because you haven't had contact with them doesn't mean that they aren't out there. PL is a big place, but it's not the only place when it comes to lasers.

Gary's software is nice, but it's not the be-all, end-all. There are alternatives. Some people may prefer spaghetti to those alternatives, but not everyone does. (Just as some people prefer Full Auto to Mamba, but not everyone does.)

Adam