ILDA Accreditation

[keeperx]

"The ability to let that which does not matter truly slide" - Fight Club

[Stuka]

ANYWAY -

Steve (mixedgas) - and others who have chimed in with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism - personally I like where you're going with this, and appreciate your efforts!

Since many (most?) of us on this forum are "just" hobbiests at this point, and really don't have a background to really present good solid recommendations concerning safety, regulations, etc., perhaps it would be best if you (and the other educated / experienced professionals on this forum) continued to post your specific ideas for certification material, and then let us know how we can help to get the ideas pushed through the ILDA recognition process.

Like many others who have posted, I think certifications based on graduated levels of technical training and experience would serve the hobbiests and professionals the best, with separate certifications available for those who have achieved recognition for shows they have produced and/or performed.

[keeperx]

show recognition is nothing more than bragging rights .. you don't need certified bragging rights..

thats called a portfolio...

[mixedgas]

[QUOTE=keeperx;76876]show recognition is nothing more than bragging rights .. you don't need certified bragging rights..

I beg to differ.

Ya know, going out to do a show is more like a military operation then you might expect, you have to have checklists, spare gear, provide cooling water and power, shelter your equipment, secure it from theft, vandalism, and chipmunks and mice, Haul out cabling and hoses and control wiring. Deal with the talent, the house sound guy, the house lighting guy, security types who won't let you into your own gig. People who shut off water and generators for no reason, Generators that show up with the wrong wiring. Fire marshals, cops, the FAA. Then you need to make a safe environment and deal with many things that crop up unexpectedly. Like not getting paid as promised. Your a plumber and master electrician besides a artist. You also don't get the venue for all night, and you have to be out of the way in a few hours or less when you leave, so the next act can get in.

I just helped out on a show that used a 30 foot tall inflatable screen. A mesh screen rated for 30+ knots was was speced in the contract, but they brought out something more or less for indoors. The screen vendor screwed the pooch, and the show layout had to be flipped around at 4 am in the morning to go from rear projected graphics to beams when the wind hit 40 knots and the screen kept folding over and trying to be a blimp. Several 20 foot scaffs needed tore down and moved by hand, with a few hundred pounds of gear on each scaff, plus moving the genny/water/wiring to a new location. Then we picked up all the seating for a couple of hundred people and moved it.

The event sponsors ran a movie on the same screen before the laser show, and lost all their audience because the screen would not stay up. So 28 people stayed for the laser show instead of a couple of hundred.

The water pressure was 90 PSI, enough to pop the overpressure drains on the lasers, and I had to drive 60 miles to ST Louis to get a proper plug for the genny and a pressure regulator on the morning of the show day (I was paid to be on site for emergencies as a roadie/techie) You can't get the right NEMA plugs at most hardware stores or home depot.

A lack of tef tape or a spare fuse or a spare connector can kill a show in the field.
You haul out a few hundred pounds of computer and projector, and a few thousand pounds of support gear, speaker clusters, and scaffolds and tarps. You have to have two or three of everything, in road cases.

That is why completed shows count, field operations is really different from doing a show in the same venue day after day after day. Logistics is a serious professional skill in this biz.

The completed shows in the field is not bragging rights, its a critical measure of your professional sucess.

[ildadirect]

Hi, I'm glad people are noticing the ILDA Accreditation program. Here is some background about the program, which may answer questions or concerns. We also have three webpages at ILDA's website which goes into more detail, plus you can download the current (draft) Accreditation Form to read it for yourself.

My comments:

A DRAFT, WITH OPEN INPUT

The Accreditation Form and the requirements are in draft format. So if there are one or two items you don't like, these may well change. I hope you don't dis the whole program just because there are a couple of requirements you don't like (or can't meet right away).

We are asking for input from ILDA Members and non-members. So the commenting process is open; anyone may make suggestions. (I do ask that for official comments/suggestions, call or email me directly, or email to the Laserist list. Comments elsewhere, including Photon Lexicon, may not make it into the "official" pile.)

OPEN PROCESS (NOT FOR ILDA MEMBERS ONLY)

Accreditation is not related to ILDA Membership. These are two very separate things. You can be an ILDA Member and apply, or not apply for ILDA Accreditation. You can be a non-ILDA member and apply for ILDA Accreditation.

Further, there are no ILDA-specific requirements. You do not have to have an ILDA Award, you do not have to attend an ILDA Conference, you do not have to be on an ILDA committee, and of course you do not have to be an ILDA Member.

WHAT ACCREDITATION IS, AND IS NOT

The ILDA Accreditation program is for companies and those doing laser show business. (Individuals who are sole proprietorships or incorporated can apply as well.) It is NOT a certification program for individuals such as to certify a doctor or lawyer or IT specialist. BTW, ILDA would like to do such a program in the future, but one step at a time.

Accreditation is not education. While it would be nice if ILDA (or others) gave classes in laser safety etc., this is a separate subject. ILDA relies on volunteer efforts; if volunteers want to work on this, then safety education offerings would have a higher priority. (And in fact, the Accreditation Form was delayed while I created LaserPointerSafety.com, which I think people will agree is an effort to improve safety information for end-users of laser pointers.)

Accreditation may not be automatic, or simple for every company. There are requirements. While the requirements are meant to be reasonable and fair, some companies simply may not have them all. It may take a year or two for a company to complete all of the requirements. This is in line with any other accreditation or certification program including getting a degree from school or passing a MSCE test. Not every company gets ISO 9000 certification the first time or without doing some work.

ACCREDITATION IS NOT ELITIST OR RESTRICTIVE

Accreditation is not elitist. ILDA is not ranking companies. It is pass/fail: accreditation merely states that a company has achieved reasonable baseline standards to demonstrate that a company has experience and knowledge in areas that ILDA-volunteer members felt were important to lasershow companies and the laser display industry.

If a company does not meet the requirements, does not want to participate, or does not agree with the requirements, that is OK. ILDA Accreditation is a bonus, not a barrier. If a company does not have ILDA Accreditation, this does not stop them in any way from doing laser shows, from saying they are professionals, from listing their experience, or from any other action they can do now.

AREAS OF OBJECTIONS

Looking at what people have written here and elsewhere, I have seen three main areas of objections.

One area consists of objections to the idea of ILDA *gasp* even thinking about setting up a program that helps identify companies reaching a certain achievement level. But such a program is not uncommon; there are lots of programs for individuals or companies where they can get credit for achievements. So while we may modify the accreditation program, it is unlikely we will drop it.

Another area of objections is to specific requirements. For example, a number of people are unhappy with the requirement to have won at least one award. I have already stated that the ILDA Accredited program is in draft, that we are accepting comments from anyone including non-members, and that not all companies may immediately meet the requirements.

A third area of objections is to the documentation requirements. This is tricky. We do ask that if you did a show, or took a course, or went to a conference, that there be some proof. We don't want to make this onerous, especially for things in the past. But on the other hand, it would be meaningless if ILDA did not require some proof that the requirement was met. We will continue to work on these areas.

ILDA IS RUN BY VOLUNTEER LASERISTS

I have a final thought for people who are upset with ILDA's proposal. This includes those who want to drop ILDA Membership. Keep in mind that ILDA is a volunteer-run membership organization. ILDA -- naturally -- reflects the goals of its most active and vocal members.

One or a few impassioned people can make a big change in ILDA policies or programs. So if you don't like the accreditation program, don't just write a couple of forum posts and expect ILDA to do things exactly how you want them (though we may!). It is much more effective to work within ILDA's committee and Board structure to try to accomplish this.

Of course, the Board and members may not agree to everything you want or propose (it has happened to me ). But if you really care about lasers and improving the laser industry, it is really surprising what one or a few people within ILDA can do.

HOW TO COMMENT

As I said above, if you want to make an official comment/suggestion to ILDA, write or call me directly (mail@laserist.org) or post to the Laserist List. We are listening and are already planning some changes.

Thanks again for your interest,

-- Patrick Murphy
ILDA Executive Director

PS: Instructions for joining the Laserist List are at http://www.laserist.org/mailinglists.htm . More details about the accreditation and certification programs (an overview) are at
http://www.laserist.org/certification-overview.htm

[ildadirect]

Like many others who have posted, I think certifications based on graduated levels of technical training and experience would serve the hobbiests and professionals the best, with separate certifications available for those who have achieved recognition for shows they have produced and/or performed.

Just to clarify, the ILDA Accreditation proposal covers companies and individuals who are in the business of doing lasershows. It is not a certification program to identify individuals' abilities and experience in lasers.

We would like to do an individual certification program and have it on our roadmap. We need people to develop the criteria for this. See our accreditation and certification pages at the website for more details about what might be required in such a program.

At this time, the most work and frankly interest has been in having ILDA identify and give credit for corporate experience and achievements. So we're working on this first.

Thanks for your nice comments and good suggestion!

-- Patrick

[Pitts]

Hi Steve..
What's wrong with the current proposed, already developed ILDA certification system (not yet implemented I understand) ??
I saw this "operator" and "pro" level certification idea when I was visiting Greg at LSDI. The entry level operator cert' looks a very good start for Pro and Amateur alike. The more advanced one may suit the Pro better in the long run.
Right now it appears there is nothing so...who in fact can claim to be a certified Laser SHOW operator... pro or amateur ??

I personally thought it hit the nail on the head nicely as a good entry and upgrade option.
Whats more it appears all the hard work has already been done and could be rolled out very quickly.

Personally I don't see much of a need for an "amateur" status, you are either a laser operator or you are not.
If doing shows in your basement most people are not likely to bother anyway but there needs to be an entry level path for those starting out on shows full or part time. (even the big boys started out one day in the past)

(for all )
Can we please keep this thread clear of insults, threats of technical difficulties, personal matters and ego's..
Yes we all know some of you are "Pro's" and some are not but we are all interested at some level in lasers..( or we wouldn't be here in PL)

let that be the focus.

Let's spare a thought for Patrick @ ILDA right now.... who'd want to be the boss of ILDA at this "fun" time.

Cheers

Ray
NZ

[ildadirect]

Ray --

Hi, good to hear from you! I am unaware of Greg's proposal but it sounds like a good start. ILDA is not perfect (ha ha) so there may have been proposals made which didn't get anywhere. The Accreditation proposal was actually made 3-4 years ago but only recently did it get reactivated in its present form.

As indicated in my reply to Stuka, we do want to do an individual certification. Maybe after the current situation shakes out, ILDA corporately can focus attention on that. In the meantime, if Greg, you, O. Steven, or anyone else wants to develop an individual certification proposal (or resubmit...) this would be great. Anyone for an ILDA committee?

-- Patrick

[carmangary]

What happens if a company gets the cert and then the main guys quit? Then you have a certified company with people who don't know what they are doing.

[Pitts]

I guess the risk of losing certified people exists in many industries.
I know it does in mine (electronics).. it takes between three and five years to certify a technician and register them in this country.. hens teeth are more plentiful at certain times.

The basic entry level cert' isn't all that complex if implemented as I saw it, it would not take long to get another person certified at the basic level.

I guess also I was thinking more of a "voluntary" certification rather than a must do. I was not thinking of a compulsory concept at all.

It just shows a commitment to the industry and a healthy attitude toward laser show safety.
It may also help getting business as the client can be shown that operator X has got at the least a basic certification from our International body.

Cheers
Ray