ILDA Accreditation

[aijii]

http://www.laserist.org/certificatio...-companies.htm

Have a read of it guys. Personally, I do not agree. Awards ? Minimum level of technical complexity in the shows we run ? Bah. I'm sure we wouldn't have ea problem meeting most of the items on that list... but I think its the wrong path for ILDA to take, and will see ILDA LOSE members.

Edwin Dolby's posting to the ILDA list raises a great point which i will repost here:

"I think this initiative is heading ILDA in totally the wrong direction.

This approach seems to be driven by emotion rather that rational though.

The route problem as I see it is people/companies feel that lesser
people/companies or even rouge laserists are effecting the perception of
all laser companies (I think we all mainly agree on this point). I have
heard many times that anybody can be an ILDA member if the pay their dues
etc. This became apparent with the Russian laser incident. People with no
education effected all of us. This is the problem.

The solution to this problem of being lumped in with every other laserist
and rouge is not accreditation.
Simply no government, police, or more importantly media organization will
care.
Clients don’t care. No one cares. All we will hear about the next incident
is “some guy with a laser….eye damage….” Will our answer be “well he is a
member but not accredited”
So it really does not help.

This exclusionary approach to safety and standards of practice etc will
not help ILDA members because it does not reach rouges or non-ILDA
members. These are the people we must reach as they cause the most
problems for the rest of us.

We have to stop the next incident not just try to separate ourselves from
the next incident (or these people).
We cannot separate ourselves from these people, so let’s change them. It’s
to our advantage and theirs. (Mutual Advantage)

I think we should look at this more like educators.

We need to be as inclusionary as possible so we have a chance to effect
change in the people and companies’ practices that make us vulnerable.

We could make an ILDA safety course online WBT (Web Based Training).
Every ILDA member must go through the course and take the exam (online)
afterwards.
I used to manage a Web Base Learning company, this is not hard and worth
the investment.
If new ILDA issues come up we simply add it in to the training course.

Beside your ILDA logo you would get an “S” for completing the safety course.
Perhaps if you own a safety power meter you get a “+”

So you could build up enhancements to your status (or perhaps they would
he mandatory).

We could produce standards of business practice, and projector wiring
courses too.

Inclusionary approaches are the only way!

Let’s stop this accreditation talk right now as I have just demonstrated
it provides no advantage (in fact DIS-advantages) to ILDA members or
laserists and there are better solutions to meet our collective ends.

Best Regards, (and all due respect to Patrick for many reasons!)

Edwin Dolby

Edwin Dolby
Laser Productions Ltd
T: (403) 692-0292
F: (403) 366-5595
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Blackberry PIN 30073960
info@laserproductions.ca
www.laserproductions.ca"

[carmangary]

I agree with you. It is all a very bad idea and I don't think there are many people willing to be bothered with those requirements to be in the "ILDA Club".

I don't think I will renew my membership when it comes up for renewal.

[allthatwhichis]

And I was this close to joining... Very good post by Mr. Dolby in response.

[mikkojay]

Hear Hear- The main accreditation thing I would be concerned with is maybe proof of adherence to some kind of standardized safety checklist. Other than that, view a sample of what the company can do & enjoy the show!
-Mike

[mophead]

Gosh. I really really want to be a "professional"



Ummmm.


I believe I'll pass; I mean hey----I'm new, will never do 15 shows, most likely will get legal with all my gear. The whole tone of the program or what-ever they call it to be a "professional", nah, screw all that.

As a newcomer to the scene...I understand being safe and all, but the uppity tone got me.

[Pitts]

I am a member of ILDA as are many of you..
Although I am only a "newbie" at two years odd.
I personally don't like where this is taking ILDA.... seems to smack of an "elite" commercial group.

It is in effect protectionism for those that are "in" and making it harder for those "aspiring" to get in.
Imagine as a client you have one supplier as an "ILDA approved Professional" and the other who is not... guess who is going to get the job. The client doesn't know so may rely on the ILDA list as the best resource..

Have a look at how many points are awarded for safety (small) compared to how many are awarded for numbers of shows performed.(large) !!
All that means is you may have done a sh@t load of shows unsafely and been lucky.(as some say "show us the body bags".. still doesnt make it right though !)

"Endorsements from clients"... what a load of rubbish !!!, you can show someone new a laser beam doing a circle and they think its great. Its like letting the blind lead the blind it really is no endorsment at all other than the client was happy and no one is blind.

I recently spoke to an experienced "pro" show provider (over 20years I believe).. on the subject of audience scanning and safety.. his reply "well its OK if the beam is moving and not sitting still !!! "... AND he believes it.
OK so he would comply and could be on the inner "elite" with his long experienced background...... hardly the basis for a "pro" in my opinion.

If as a client I wanted to know if my show provider has a good safety record and to see if he is "Laser show safety competant and certified"... do we have an ILDA certificate of basic safety competence ??
I do know one is planned and has been in the pipeline for some time... I did see a glimpse when in the USA earlier this year and it looks real good.. Maybe this is where the effort should be going.

The underlying reason for this scheme seems to me NOT to be safety but protectionism of the few. The facts are the laser world like many others is changing.
It is easier to get into it than it was (thank goodness). Will it help to "isolate" the newbies as second rate laser operators.... I don't think so.

It is easier for people to get into lasers now..... Learn to live with it.
as they say "build a bridge and get over it".
With or without ILDA this growth is going to continue.

Education, encouragement, safety training and certification (voluntary) may be a better goal for ILDA to be aiming at.
An ILDA "safety certified" operator is going to appeal to both the client and the governent enforcers (OSH here in NZ) than what is proposed.. (yes I know ILDA do good work on this now but lets see this as the thrust )

Like Jon who posted directly to the ILDA "battle"..
I too would like to thank ILDA. Patrick, Bill, Greg and the many others who make ILDA work for us.. but hey guys I think this one is just plain out wrong.

OK I'll get off my soapbox now..

Cheers

Ray
NZ

[James Lehman]

I don't think ILDA is all bad. But it's not all good either.

My own experience with its (then) technical standards and specifications committee chair and some of its other members over the past few years is proof of that.

One would think that arithmetic proof of concept would be enough to convince a technical standards and specifications committee.

It is not.

If they keep up with their attitude, it will be their own undoing.

I have added a lot to the computer science aspects of laser display. I have offered my knowledge to ILDA several times.

Clearly, some of them have egos that are much more important than any real, proven technology.

I've never been given an explaination; only an excuse. All I ever hear is that these things are decided by committee, so no one person has to take the blame.

If ILDA won't recognize my efforts and enhancements to the computer science aspects of lasers, then my ideas will have to exist outside of that which is ILDA.

So what does that tell you about ILDA?

ILDA isn't really all about laser display. It's about money, power and ego with a little bit of laser display.

"Inclusive" is not a word I would associate with ILDA.

James.

[Anthony]

I don't think ILDA is all bad. But it's not all good either.

My own experience with its (then) technical standards and specifications committee chair and some of its other members over the past few years is proof of that.

One would think that arithmetic proof of concept would be enough to convince a technical standards and specifications committee.

It is not.

If they keep up with their attitude, it will be their own undoing.

I have added a lot to the computer science aspects of laser display. I have offered my knowledge to ILDA several times.

Clearly, some of them have egos that are much more important than any real, proven technology.

I've never been given an explaination; only an excuse. All I ever hear is that these things are decided by committee, so no one person has to take the blame.

If ILDA won't recognize my efforts and enhancements to the computer science aspects of lasers, then my ideas will have to exist outside of that which is ILDA.

So what does that tell you about ILDA?

ILDA isn't really all about laser display. It's about money, power and ego with a little bit of laser display.

"Inclusive" is not a word I would associate with ILDA.

James.

James,

Please don't make this yet anthor topic about YOU en the battle for ilda formats :-) (an no i'm not trying to offend you this time)
There are lager things going on now.

I'm an "outsider" and a resonable newbee in the whole laser scene.
it comes to me as elitist.

If ILDA wants a safer use of lasers(showsytems) maybe they could focus their effords towards GOOD but cheap and accessible education (online) for all serious laser hobbyists and pro's.
Just like mr Dolby pointed out.

I know for sure that alot of people here are willing to take online safety and technical courses.
It serves the whole community rather than one group.

[James Lehman]

The issue of the file format is just one good example of the inner workings of ILDA.

I might seem like the bad guy to you, but I'm the guy who dared to ask why.

As far as I can see ILDA has been a very poor custodian of their own standards. If they are going to set standards for the whole world they need to be responsible for them.

Saying this is how it is because ILDA says so is not responsible. It is the definition of elitism.

James.

[heroic]

If you want to become licensed to handle freon, you have to take a training course and pass an exam. These days, most people do it online. It costs about $25 all in and it makes sure nobody's going to pollute the atmosphere with waste freon and nobody's going to blow themselves up with leaked propane or butane (which is used as a refrigerant these days).

I don't see laser safety as being any different. Online training and exams would be totally adequate and if it were easier to get the training, I think a lot of the laser pointer jerks would take it. Even better, if it were easy and inexpensive and checkable, laser companies could reasonably refuse to sell to anyone who hasn't taken the requisite course for the type of laser they were selling.

This seems to me to be a proactive and reasonable way to improve the state of the industry and I would love to see ILDA take this route to improving safety and the state of the art in general.