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Thread: Stan_Ham diode driver (analog)

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by uk-laser View Post
    Saw right through me
    Hehe. Well, only because we have been testing, and doing experiments with ESD for more than six months and we know that if ESD was to come in contact with a laser diode directly, the results would be catastrophic.

    We also know that what you showed here would not be possible with just plain old ESD and plain old laser diode. When we use plain old ESD and a plain old laser diode, I can "see the light" coming right out of a laser diode when we hit it with ESD, but I doubt it would be possible to "see the light" coming out of a collimated package projected on a target as you did. When using plain old ESD, the amount of light we see is really tiny.

    What you have provided there (unwittingly or otherwise) is a rectifier and filter. So, basically you named your post correctly. This is really an ESD-powered laser system. The ESD itself is rectified, and then filtered by the capacitor. The capacitor served to store enough charge to stretch the pulse out for a relatively long time, thus allowing enough light to be generated and then projected.

    There are other things that I can "see" with your video that other people might overlook. For example, even calling this ESD is a misnomer. What you have there is a spark generator, nothing more. But there is nothing that tells us the quality of that spark -- in other words, the voltage or impedance of the output or its character. I strongly suspect that what you have there is rather an AC generator, and I seriously doubt that the rise time is on the order of 0.7nS, as would be the case for "real" ESD.

    What has saved your bacon is not only the 12 ohm resistor, TVS, and capacitor, but the relatively long red and black wires that lead to the laser. The inductance of that system is substantial enough that all of this "works" in favor of the laser diode.

    Another thing we don't know is the latent damage to the laser itself. Just because it makes light, doesn't mean that it will keep making light for the rest of its prescribed lifetime...

    It takes expensive instrumentation in order to characterize all of these things. Nevertheless, I will fully admit that this video raised my eyebrows, as I am sure it would for many people! My eyebrows are not raised often and for that, I commend you .


    Quote Originally Posted by uk-laser View Post
    By the way what is the maximum supply voltage (diode Vf) of the Lasorb.
    I think it's 20 or 30 volts. I can't remember the exact figure... Definitely good enough to protect a series string of laser diodes, but our philosophy is that ESD will come in direct contact with the leads of a laser diode itself and, as such, it is best to protect each laser diode with a separate LASORB.


    Quote Originally Posted by uk-laser View Post
    It occurs to me that whilst the Lasorb will fully protect the LD from static whilst connected to or disconnected from the driver it does not protect in the case where the driver itself is damaged by ESD causing the driver to output an abnormal (excessive) drive current.
    I can say "yes and no". It would depend on HOW the laser diode driver were damaged and HOW tie "excessive current" were being applied. For example, as we showed in our video, and we also discussed in a powerpoint, there is a REALLY FAMOUS LASER COMPANY that produces a lot of lasers, but whose drivers are total crap. You can see the spikes if you have proper instrumentation and, this famous laser compay's laser diodes always die prematurely. If we put LASORB on their driver -- problem solved.

    In any event, one thing I have been telling people is -- send me your driver and we will fully-characterize it using our equipment. If there are remaining problems we will let you know and prescribe solutions.

    Not meaning to brag (Doc) but we have a 10GHz sampling scope, two separate real ESD guns, a Spiricon beam profiler and a whole lot of other equipment that most people don't have, so it's easy for us to perform high quality tests and really fully-qualify products. For best results, I would suggest everyone do this who wants to apply LASORB. So far the two companies who are using it have done just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by uk-laser View Post
    I guess a Lasorb is in order on the driver modulation input and perhaps on the driver supply rail?
    You might be able to sell 3 times as many!
    Hehe. People who know us know that we are in it for long term relationships. Generally we are more concerned with customer support and satisfaction, than we are "making the sale". While it is true that we could sell more LASORB if we tell people to put them everywhere, the reality is that I doubt it would be needed. As I wrote in a previous post, the reason why laser diodes themselves are succeptible to ESD is because laser diodes themselves are really fast. The video that is on our web site now is actually an excerpt of a longer video we made for a different audience. Within the longer video we show the datasheets of some laser diodes. One laser diode we showed can react in 2 nanoseconds, and another one can react in 30 picoseconds!!! This means that the laser diode itself and "feel" and react to the ESD. Most semiconductor products (for example the op-amps and power transistors that drive the laser) can't do that...

    Think of it this way. I am not going to mention any names, but I know someone very well who drives an SUV. When this unnamed person sees a speed bump in the road, he actually speeds up so he can't feel it. (Hehe, I laugh when everyone else slows down.) The reason he can't feel the speed bump is because he goes so fast, and the SUV is so heavy, it just can't react that quickly. This would be the case with the support circuitry in laser diode drivers or other equipment. By contrast, a laser diode is like a pebble meeting the speed bump. Going faster and faster won't help. The pebble will always feel the full brunt of the speed bump. So the laser diode can ramp up enough light to (what we call) "evaporate" the mirrors. This can actually be seen in the video we made where the mode profile was changed by the ESD.

    Incidentally, a few more points. The video shows our ESD coming in contact with the laser diode. Probably most people will not recognize that the yellow clip-lead going to the other side of the diode is from the other side of the ESD gun, so yes indeed we are putting ESD directly across the laser diode itself. I think people might tend to overlook this, and assume that we were only shocking the laser diode driver package itself, and possibly overlook when the ESD sparks are going directly to the laser diode pins themselves (later in the video).

    Also, all of our ESD guns are for the human body model that has 150pF and 330 ohm resistor (hence nearly 50 amps at 15kV), and not the Human Body Model that Steve mentioned in a few of his posts, which only put a mere 10 amps at 15kV... We always develop things to do more than they need to, and test to higher and more stringent standards.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
    As I wrote in a previous post, the reason why laser diodes themselves are succeptible to ESD is because laser diodes themselves are really fast. The video that is on our web site now is actually an excerpt of a longer video we made for a different audience. Within the longer video we show the datasheets of some laser diodes. One laser diode we showed can react in 2 nanoseconds, and another one can react in 30 picoseconds!!! This means that the laser diode itself and "feel" and react to the ESD. Most semiconductor products (for example the op-amps and power transistors that drive the laser) can't do that...
    Cool, so that suggests that a fast cheap LD can protect an expensive LD. Got to follow this idea for a moment, if no further... What if the cheap one had a Vf slightly higher than the main one, allowing normal operation? Parallel connection ought to work, no? So long as the cheap one takes all the flak, anyway.. (And for the moment I'm ignoring reverse bias protection).

    EDIT: Scratch that. Unless it was fast enough to take all the ESD pulse before the main one started conducting, it wouldn't take it all.
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 01-23-2009 at 01:24.

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    One of the capacitors seems to want to be a polarised capacitor and the other a non polarised which is something im having trouble making sense of. Pardon my ignorance but something like polarity seems important so I want to get it right. Any Help would be much apprieated

    Silent

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    The 3 100 nanfarad devices are non polarized:

    http://www.rapidonline.com/Electroni...513/kw/10-1780

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentShaddow View Post
    One of the capacitors seems to want to be a polarised capacitor and the other a non polarised which is something im having trouble making sense of. Pardon my ignorance but something like polarity seems important so I want to get it right. Any Help would be much apprieated

    Silent

    thats right..

    C1 is Non polarised... C2 is polarised..
    It works fine... just stick to the schematic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    thats right..

    C1 is Non polarised... C2 is polarised..
    It works fine... just stick to the schematic.
    I think you miss understand me, when I was searching for the compotents I only found non polasied capacitors. I wasnt questioning the design. Thanks for the though.


    1. 1x 100 nf Non Polarised Capacitor
    2. 1x 100nf Polarised Capacitor 10-1780 £0.12
    3. 3x Diode 1N4148 47-3308 £0.008
    4. LM358 (N?) 82-0258 £0.22
    5. An Led and Approiate Resistor
    6. 2x RTRIM64W Resistor. see below
    7. 7x10k resistor (multipack) £2.28
    8. BD437 81-0102 £0.18
    9. 1 x 1k Resistor 62-6352 £0.70 for 10
    10. 1 x 1R Resistor 62-6320 £0.70 for 10
    11. 6V PSU

    I found some electrolitic capacitors that said non-polarised, do I assume that the capacitor that is linked up there is polarised and that im after a capacitor that specifically says nonpolarised?
    Or more likely am I just missing something thats obvious to the rest of you? I never realised capacitors where so complicated

    Silent

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentShaddow View Post
    I think you miss understand me, when I was searching for the compotents I only found non polasied capacitors. I wasnt questioning the design. Thanks for the though.


    1. 1x 100 nf Non Polarised Capacitor
    2. 1x 100nf Polarised Capacitor 10-1780 £0.12
    3. 3x Diode 1N4148 47-3308 £0.008
    4. LM358 (N?) 82-0258 £0.22
    5. An Led and Approiate Resistor
    6. 2x RTRIM64W Resistor. see below
    7. 7x10k resistor (multipack) £2.28
    8. BD437 81-0102 £0.18
    9. 1 x 1k Resistor 62-6352 £0.70 for 10
    10. 1 x 1R Resistor 62-6320 £0.70 for 10
    11. 6V PSU
    I found some electrolitic capacitors that said non-polarised, do I assume that the capacitor that is linked up there is polarised and that im after a capacitor that specifically says nonpolarised?
    Or more likely am I just missing something thats obvious to the rest of you? I never realised capacitors where so complicated

    Silent
    capacitors arent complicated... i think you made a small mistake looking at the schematic and parts list.

    Part Value
    C1 100nf
    C2 100uf

    NANO FARAD
    "MICRO" FARAD


    To convert milli-Farad into Farad use relation,
    1 milli-Farad = 0.001 F
    To convert milli-Farad into micro-Farad use relation,
    1 milli-Farad = 1000 uF
    To convert milli-Farad into nano-Farad use relation,
    1 milli-Farad = 1000000 nF
    To convert milli-Farad into pico-Farad use relation,
    1 milli-Farad = 1000000000 pF

  8. #88
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    Hello

    Thank your very much for this schematic but I have a question.
    Is it possible to supply this driver with +5/-5V or 12/0V ? This voltages are easier to find (with a PC's supply for exemple). Is it necessary to modify some values of composants ?

    good bye

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    Quote Originally Posted by nain-nain View Post
    Hello

    Thank your very much for this schematic but I have a question.
    Is it possible to supply this driver with +5/-5V or 12/0V ? This voltages are easier to find (with a PC's supply for exemple). Is it necessary to modify some values of composants ?

    good bye
    5V should be possible for 660/650 diodes...
    For 405's its to low.... 6 volts are better.

    i personally think that 12 volts is 2 high....
    I know from Rob (stanwax) that the original circuit with the other transistor wasn't capable of handeling that extra heat.

    The BD437 can be cooled better with a heat sink but i still thing its better to feed 9V maximum...

    Making a 6V source is easy if you use a 7806 regulator.
    See schematic below... if you using a 12V DC PSU, you can remove th transformer T1 and Rectifier Br1 form the schematic.

  10. #90
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    If you run it off a split rail power supply, ie +5 to -5, you will have issues with the control voltage being 0-5 and the psu rails coing up at different times, ie the minus rail usually starts after the plus rail on PCs. This can lead to destruction of the diode.

    Steve

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