Pre-varianced projector enclosures..?

[Stuka]

So, a funny thing happened after running my first "mass performance" showing (OK- 10 people ) of the "Randy's Garage Laser Show" -

It seems that a couple of our guests / friends, who run a rather unique dining / entertainment establishment in town, are suddenly VERY interested in adding the occasional laser entertainment to the show bill!

Woo Hoo - a possible hobby expense recovery prospect!!

SO - since "Project Stuka RGB" completion seems to be taking a LOT longer than expected, I'm considering the possibility of utilizing a pre-variance projector case to help speed things along. I know this will NOT be cheap! If I go this route, I'll need to do this on an "extended hobby budget", with the hopes of recovering the costs over the course of a few shows.

With that mind, does anyone have recommendations on reputable vendors in the U.S. that sell pre-varianced projector enclosures? I'm familiar with One Stop Laser Shop, and have always been quite pleased working with them, but I'm always open to seeing what else might be availble on the market.

Thanks!

Randy

[Laserman532]

So, a funny thing happened after running my first "mass performance" showing (OK- 10 people ) of the "Randy's Garage Laser Show" -

It seems that a couple of our guests / friends, who run a rather unique dining / entertainment establishment in town, are suddenly VERY interested in adding the occasional laser entertainment to the show bill!

Woo Hoo - a possible hobby expense recovery prospect!!

SO - since "Project Stuka RGB" completion seems to be taking a LOT longer than expected, I'm considering the possibility of utilizing a pre-variance projector case to help speed things along. I know this will NOT be cheap! If I go this route, I'll need to do this on an "extended hobby budget", with the hopes of recovering the costs over the course of a few shows.

With that mind, does anyone have recommendations on reputable vendors in the U.S. that sell pre-varianced projector enclosures? I'm familiar with One Stop Laser Shop, and have always been quite pleased working with them, but I'm always open to seeing what else might be availble on the market.

Thanks!

Randy

***insert sound of very loud annoying buzzer here*** there is much more (we will add light years of more) to doing a "legal" show than buying a box with a sticker on it nice try tho

[buffo]

Relax, Pat. Randy knows better. His question is how to speed the variance process, not how to do a safe show. He's smart enough to know that the variance is the first step, not the only step.

Also, Randy was present (as an extra set of hands) at a professional laser show for Baby Anne in Charlotte, NC back in the fall of 2007, so he has at least *some* idea of what needs to happen for a show to be done safely. (I know, because I was there with him as another set of hands!)

I'm sure there will be more questions to follow, and I seriously doubt that Randy will be doing any paid gigs on his own for quite some time yet.

Adam

[Laserman532]

Relax, Pat. Randy knows better. His question is how to speed the variance process, not how to do a safe show. He's smart enough to know that the variance is the first step, not the only step.

Also, Randy was present (as an extra set of hands) at a professional laser show for Baby Anne in Charlotte, NC back in the fall of 2007, so he has at least *some* idea of what needs to happen for a show to be done safely. (I know, because I was there with him as another set of hands!)

I'm sure there will be more questions to follow, and I seriously doubt that Randy will be doing any paid gigs on his own for quite some time yet.

Adam

no, i was not poopooing his knowledge. and I am aware of his capabilities. Notice i put "legal" in quotations. My point was the sticker on the projector would not apply to what ever he builds. His short cut wont solve any problems or streamline process. There was just too much info to type. Actually I was kind of shocked with his knowledge he might suggest it, may be I read it wrong. Sorry

I was actually going to tell him..."screw the regs, you are going into a club or something once a month to wing some beams with a baby RGB, just be careful, dont be stupid, dont audience scan and have some fun" But I didnt want anybodies keyboards to break when their jaw hit it

Safely & Legally are two completely different kind of aardvarks

[Laserman532]

no, i was not poopooing his knowledge. and I am aware of his capabilities. Notice i put "legal" in quotations. My point was the sticker on the projector would not apply to what ever he builds. His short cut wont solve any problems or streamline process. There was just too much info to type. Actually I was kind of shocked with his knowledge he might suggest it, may be I read it wrong. Sorry

I was actually going to tell him..."screw the regs, you are going into a club or something once a month to wing some beams with a baby RGB, just be careful, dont be stupid, dont audience scan and have some fun" But I didnt want anybodies keyboards to break when their jaw hit it

Safely & Legally are two completely different kind of aardvarks

on first post I should have said..."there is no such thing as a variance approved box"

[buffo]

Having an enclosure that already meets the requirements *does* make it easier to fill out the paperwork. You still need to have all the required hardware inside (including a shutter), but the basics (interlock loop, case intrusion switch, emission indicator, etc) are already done for you. When you apply for the variance you reference the previous number on the case, and then all you have to do is detail the changes you've made. Sure, it's still a new variance application, but it both streamlines the application process *and* the approval process.

Having said that, yeah, I agree that there is a lot of other work involved in obtaining a variance, and even once you get one, you've still got a business license to obtain, liability insurance to procure, and a bunch of other BS that is well beyond the scope of this discussion. (This is why I'm still a hobbyist!)

Truthfully, I'm surprised that OSLS sells so many of those enclosures... I'd think that most hobbyists would prefer to build their own anyway. But evidently there is a market for them.

As for the idea of "go for it and be careful", well, there are certainly enough people doing that already these days. And given that the CDRH is woefully under-budgeted when it comes to enforcement, he'd probably get away with it. But if I know Randy, he won't try it until he's 100% "legal", as opposed to just "safe".

Adam

[gottaluvlasers]

hey randy-

the LT100, LT500 (smaller) are the only pre-accessioned projectors i am aware of in the U.S. and they are VERY expensive! as i am quite sure you have seen already.

in my honest opinion, you can VERY easily do your own product report for an enclosure. it is time consuming, but it can be done. you are already safety oriented and therefore are already incorporateed into your designs. dont let the size of the product reports scare you. alot of the specifics wouldnt apply to your system.

do you have the Guide for Preparing Product Reports?

if you go through that, you will see it really isnt impossible for your projector to become approved per regulation.

give me a call. im no pro with it, but i have done a few reports.

-Marc

[Stuka]

WHAT!

You mean if I go out and buy a "CDRH approved" enclosure, I'm not completely legal to do whatever, whenever? OMG!!

Not to worry - that is just a possible idea I'm looking at folks! I may have only been heavily into the laser hobby scene for a couple of years, but after close to 20 years of dealing with military laser weapon systems, I actually DO have a little bit of a clue concerning laser safety, and a bit about the legalities. I'm sure everyone who knows me realizes there is NO WAY I would look at obtaining a certified enclosure as the catch-all solution to presenting a safe, legal laser show! If I was going for that approach, I would already be in business!

Nope, this is strictly a possible idea to do exactly what Buffo mentioned - streamline the application & approval process, so if the opportunity I mentioned materializes, at least the major equipment-related legal hurtle could be sped up and out of the way. And yep, I know all the pieces and parts internally would still be required, but those would be going into a CASE that is already built "to spec" - something that has definitely been my "least favorite" party of this whole money-pit construction venture!!

If it comes down to an actual opportunity, I'll have PLENTY of questions for folks like Marc, DSLI-Jon, and others who have SAFELY and LEGALLY been in the biz for a while!

Adam -
Thanks for reminding folks here on the forum that I'm not just some uninformed nutjob looking to do laser shows!!

Marc -
Thanks - good info, as always! I actually had NOT seen that particular document yet! I'm sure you'll hear more from me if things progress!

Laserman532 -
Not to worry, Dude! The opportunity I mentioned would be tied very specifically to the business I mentioned, and tailored accordingly for safety and legality.
(These folks are FRIENDS first, and I sure wouldn't do anything to jeopordize their business!). And , since this would only be an occasional gig, and only here in Knoxville,
I'm pretty sure your gigs in the Northwest would be safe from any competition from the likes of me!!

[Laserman532]

adam - i see no validity to a "accession numbered enclosure" - just because you have lights, labels and interlocks & key switch the enclosure is only a part of the "varianced product". I just didnt see any streamlining at all I saw more of red flags...but that is just me. So if the interlock circuit fails or the keyswitch fails and someone gets injured...who gets sued?

Stuka- sorry for offending, i just didnt think you could purchase one of my old "certified enclosures" (of which i've filed MANY) from 20 years ago (or buy a "certified enclosure") rip my crap out (or their crap out) and put your crap in would streamline anything. May be I dont understand theory



Oh by the way- I have NO competation...I haven't done a "gig" professionally in well over 10 years.

[Stuka]

adam - i see no validity to a "accession numbered enclosure" - just because you have lights, labels and interlocks & key switch the enclosure is only a part of the "varianced product". I just didnt see any streamlining at all I saw more of red flags...but that is just me. So if the interlock circuit fails or the keyswitch fails and someone gets injured...who gets sued?

Stuka- sorry for offending, i just didnt think you could purchase one of my old "certified enclosures" (of which i've filed MANY) from 20 years ago (or buy a "certified enclosure") rip my crap out (or their crap out) and put your crap in would streamline anything. May be I dont understand theory



Oh by the way- I have NO competation...I haven't done a "gig" professionally in well over 10 years.

No offense taken - I actually do appreciate the input from anyone who is, or was, in the biz! For me, this is and always will be a hobby first - IF I get the opportunity to earn a few bucks, that's cool, but if it becomes more of a job and less of a hobby, I'll just stick to the "Randy's Garage" private gigs!

I'm actually very curious myself about the CDRH restrictions and provisions that come with the "Pre-approved" enclosures. It will be interesting to see what I can find out from OSLS.

More to follow!