Originally Posted by
laserworld-ag
Hello, my name is Peter and I work at Laserworld AG. We usually abstain from posting in forums, because we don't need this platform for advertising, nor do we try to fight our competitors, unless of course in the competition on the market.
But there are a few commercial users in this forum who suffered a lot by our market presence and these have been the only people doing everything to harm our reputation, because one thing is for sure: every laser we sold is one which they haven't sold.
If some give a great review about a product of ours, these few guys post so many bad feedback that the good people just stop working at all. We want to support those a bit, that guarantee that different opinions will be expressed in this forum. But we won’t follow suite and use this as a marketing platform.
It is always quite interesting how measurements are done in forums like these, especially if it is about competitors products.
I won't comment on these specific measurements. I have seen many of those, and they always follow the same routine. In fact the images look as if one "lab" and setup was cloned from the other. This makes it easier to comment on such measurements in general.
So, just make sure how we select the lasers at Laserworld: well, we measure them before they are mounted in the projector. And I don't see many alternatives to that.
In fact when we receive the lasers, as the diodes we get from our suppliers usually have a certain range in power.
They not only meet the minimum specs, but usually are quite above.
Unfortunately we can not just use lasers with any arbitrary power it just happens to have, as our customers often use more than one laser, and would rightfully complain if the brightness would differ.
Fortunately, as we build large numbers of projectors, we have the possibility to select from large numbers of lasers.
So, as mentioned before they are measured on arrival. Any other way would be a waste of time and resources, as it is hard to see how we can efficiently build a projector and then look and see what power it will have.
When measuring the diodes not mounted into a projector, there is, in our opinion, only one practical way to do this. Put 5V at the signal input, and measure the power coming out.
And that's the power we guarantee, not the output power after all optics. I don't think we mentioned anything else anywhere. Or that it is feasible to do anything else.
And that's, by the way, a measurement under reproducible conditions. I always wonder why the measurements done by competitors always contain such amounts of irreproducibility (or rather I don't so much wonder).
Just a thought, the reflection of a window, or mirror, is depending on the angle of incident (the Fresnel equations, if I remember it right??? Or maybe I'm wrong, if so, let me apologize beforehand). Nevertheless the measurements are done in some obscure (and irreproducible) setups.
Of course, whoever does take the measurement, generously allows for a certain amount of loss, mostly with the words "even the worst optics wouldn't loose more than x%”. Well, in fact, it depends - even for the best optics.
But, as the measurements are usually taken with an open projector - why don't you just measure before the optics, to eliminate any such effects? Maybe because the measurements would be other - higher, and reproducible.
To make such measurements easy, I would suggest that such experts, that always feature a lot of expensive equipment on their photos, would use a simple tool we have to make measurements in a projector - a small silver mirror on a 45° mount - just put it before the laser and measure the beam coming out upwards.
Also, from my experience, DPSS lasers take some warm up time, especially blue ones. That's why we take always a series of measurements, not just a still that can show almost anything from zero to a short lived peak way above the normal power.
And, again especially blue lasers, are quite sensitive to temperature, so it would be nice to know at what ambient temperature the measurements were taken.
I also wonder why people taking such measurements at RGB lasers always complain that one colour is much too low. But they rarely complain on the colour mixing.
Unless, of course, you remind them of that, usually they will then follow up saying that this was the case in the first place - they just didn't mention it before. (Although the reports are usually long enough.)
Well, if I bought an RGB laser I would have 2 main issues - first, the power coming out - and second the colour (and for some of our customers this comes even first). Strange that the latter is usually forgotten in such measurement reports.
But maybe we should first agree on how such measurements should be taken? At the diode, or after all optics?
And it would be great if we could have a standard on what specified power means. The power installed (as I guess is necessary for the classification of the laser, I don't think the FDA would approve a classification saying, "but we loose so much power...".
The maximum power after all optics (maximum in respect to the incident angle of the beam). Or the minimum? What about cleaning all optics before taking measurements?
Or maybe we can agree on what a "normal" loss of optics is? For single colour setups, or RGB with dichros? Then we could surely say one laser is better than the other, as some say that a Mercedes is better than a Volkswagen.
(And thus justify the different price - if the same logics of these experts would apply to cars, we'd all have to drive Porsche and the like - all others are inferior - and don't mind the different price).
We would really be glad to come to a certain set of rules in this respect. Maybe we can reach a level where we have a spec saying "power according to standard X". And, of course we would have to add to standard Y, and so on... I don't think just one standard would be appropriate to such a complex matter.
But until then we specify what we have - the power of the diodes. And as long as we don't claim anything else, I can't see why this should be deceiving. Nor do I see why we should apply to "standards" raised by our competitors on the occasion of an ad-hoc measurement.
@mark I will not go into commenting your special measurements - why should I, you do your measurements, we do ours. And I am sure they will differ, question is why. We will measure the lasers as soon as they are back here, we have them collected from the purchaser.
By the way, in my opinion, it is a bit strange that you posted on the very same day you received the laser, whereas the customer who bought it, and who should be the one concerned, only contacted us a few days later.
Anyway I am a bit surprised on your general attitude. Compared at our sales in the rest of the world USA was always a minor market for us, didn't think that with these small numbers we have made us so many foes there.
But I have to admire, that you stand up to your point. The last "major assault" on our credibility on YouTube was done from a fake address (according to the authorities), and the IPs of the posts came from a different country, such cover up makes taking steps against such infringements a bit harder, though not impossible.
@sbk, they different photos and specs you are referring to: it seems to me, that you confused the Pro-3500RGB and the Show-3500RGB.
In the Pro-Series we select the lasers for the needed power, so if you buy another one, you can be quite sure the brightness is comparable.
The Show Series are rated at a wider range, this allows us to use diodes that would not fit into the narrower range of the Pro-Series lasers, but at a lower price. So the chance that 2 Show Series lasers have the same brightness is smaller.
And yes, our dealers sell them (mostly) on ebay, because somehow it seems people there want to buy cheaper products, and we give the people what they want.
I guess every company would (or rather should) try to sell to the people what the people want, not what competitors think would be appropriate - they have their clientele, we try to please ours.
But we have to use the diodes somehow, if we threw those, that are bit off range, away, our lasers would be a bit more expensive...
@all whoever is interested in having a closer look at (and inside) our products is invited to come to our stand at the Prolight + Sound in Frankfurt. On Friday afternoon, when the business is calming down (ca. 5 to 5:30 pm), we will have a more informal round with anyone interested, where we will let you have a look inside the lasers. BYOPM (Bring your own power meter)!
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