Newbie - hardware / software control advice

[SUBZERO]

Hi Guys,

Got a Laserworld PRO 500 RGB that i've been using for about 2 years now, solely with a DMX controller and in standalone / to the beat of the music mode.

I find the DMX control very limited and the software the PRO 500 came with it naff and locks up and
just doesn't seem to do what it says on the tin.

What i'd like to do is get a bit of software that enables me to select various shapes at the press of a button, with the ability to pan / zoom / rotate / move / change colour using a joystick controller.

So i can physically move the laser beams around in realtime to the beat of the music and get me involved in the show as much as possible - and at the flick of a switch put it into auto mode that has
some more inspiring pattern sequences than those stored internally on the laser.

We are allowed to crowd scan where i am from, and my laser isn't that powerful anyway - i want to achieve time tunnels and all the really cool effects for the crowd - really not interested in what it can project onto a wall - it's the effect the crowd see that is most important.

I'm seriously getting into VJing, using Arkaos and projecting realtime video footage / clips etc onto a 15ft x 15ft screen in a local nightclub.

Now i have full control of my VJ software but i'd also like to get full control over my laser. DMX control is OK but for me it's not involving enough.

There is only myself who does the lighting / visuals at the gigs - so i need to be able to set the laser to auto mode whilst i am using Arkaos and visa versa. I have an auto mode on my VJ software, and obviously i can only control one bit of kit at a time.

So what is the best product on the market that can be hooked up to some form of midi controller, which will give me full and easy control of my laser.

I'm really confused about LivePro - Cypher Live Pro - Live Quick etc.

What do you think would be the best software for me ?

What is the best hardware to control the software - really looking for something with buttons that will activate my chosen image + the ability to manipulate it in real time usings some form of joystick control.

Be great if i could have a bit of advice on this matter from some of the experts, before shelling out £100's, or maybe even £1,000's of pounds.

Thanks in advance.

JAMIE

[buffo]

Hi Jamie;

If you are mostly interested in performing "live", then your best bet would be the Pangolin Flashback 3 with a LivePro license. The FB3 is a quality controller that connects to your computer (or laptop) via a USB cable. You then connect your projector to the FB3 via a standard ILDA cable. The FB3 itself is very small, so you can even mount it inside your projector if you want.

LivePro is the *premiere* software for controlling a laser projector to live music. It has sophisticated beat matching for *all* features, including color blending, morphing, animation speed, and effect speed. All this can be synchonized to the beat *automatically*. All you need is a sound card with a Line-in jack. You run a cable from your main mixer over to your laptop and connect it to the line-in jack. Then you fire up Winamp and launch the LivePro beat-detection plug-in. Then run LivePro and select the plug-in as the source for beat info. Poof! Just like magic, everything you do from that point on is completely syncronized to whatever music is coming in on your line-in jack. It doesn't matter if it's a DJ spinning records or a live band, LivePro will sync up to it.

In LivePro, you have a "workspace" with several pages of cues that you can select. Cues can be individual frames, or whole animation sequences, or effects (like rotate, move, fade, zoom, etc), or color blends, or even combinations of different elements all saved together. You can even set the software to select cues automatically, either in order or at random, and you can specify how many beats to count between changes. The software comes with a couple different workspaces, and you can always edit them or even create your own from scratch.

You have 4 display tracks to play with, and each track can have it's own frame (or animation) plus it's own effects, color modifications, and other settings. You can change the settings for each track to modify how they react to the beat, or you can take complete control of them and run everything manually. The tracks can be mixed together or selected individually. You can also copy and paste between tracks, allowing you to build up very complex effects and animations and then save them for later use.

It works exceptionally well with a MIDI controller. Several of the UK folks have been playing with this; perhaps one of them will comment here about their preferred setup. But yeah, you can set up LivePro in auto mode, then touch a few keys to select different cues, then let it cycle on it's own while you run the video wall for a while, then jump back to LivePro and change a couple beat settings and go right back to running the lights or Video and just let LivePro do it's thing. It's incredible what this software can do...

Now, LiveQuick and Cypher-lite are stripped down versions of LivePro. They don't have all the advanced pattern-matching features, nor do they offer as many effects. But in a pinch, either one will get you started.

Still, if you're a professional doing live laser shows, LivePro is what you need. And if you're not particularly interested in graphics shows, then the most economical way to get LivePro is to buy an FB3 and purchase the add-on license for LivePro. (The other way to go would be to get the LD-2000 system, but it's going to cost you more, and if you only ever do live shows, you may not appreciate all the extras that the LD-2000 offers.)

Adam

[Banthai]

Hi Jamie
you said that...

We are allowed to crowd scan where i am from, and my laser isn't that powerful anyway - i want to achieve time tunnels and all the really cool effects for the crowd - really not interested in what it can project onto a wall - it's the effect the crowd see that is most important.

you may see crowd scanning in your country...some countries alow crowd scanning .. but under strict regulations .....

Where are you from .... maybe we can help ?


all the best ... Karl

[SUBZERO]

Brilliant - that's what i wanted to hear - Thanks !

Sounds like this is the software for me then - i only take the laser out maybe 10 times a year max, so it's just a bit of fun really, but i am totally aware of the dangers etc.

When the laser is on it's manned by me for every second - a mains master switch is right next to my DMX controller in case the unit freezes on a focused beam - up until now the Laserworld PRO RGB 500 has run faultlessly and all the DMX pre programed patterned i have set up are all wide angle patterns that are constantly moving and never stop on a focused beam at any point during the show.

I am from the UK, and i've been to loads of clubs who crowd scan etc. I know it's illegal in some places around the world, but here they seem OK about it. I do take every precaution i can, the last thing i want to do is blind someone - i saw this recently http://www.newscientist.com/article/...5_head_dn14310 - so i am even more careful with my system since reading this.

I have £1,000,000 public liability insurance for whenever i gig, and my insurer took a look at the specs of my laser and where satisfied it posed no more danger than to someone standing next to a huge speaker stack and bursting an ear drum. Regardless of what they say, i am totally aware that it could do someone some serious eye damage, so the laser is kept as the "cherry on the icing" and is only put on for around 10 to 15 mins per hour, to limit it's overall useage.

The Projector / VJ'ing gets used alot more as it does not require haze all the time.

So i think i've got the software sorted and your answer above sounds like it is the tool i need.

I'd be interested to know what midi controllers people are using out there with Live, as on the pangolin website the link is just to an image of some controllers - there is no mention of make / model.

I went to a club in London called FABRIC, and it is this place that got me into Lasers.

Watching an animated osolating wave form ripple above me like i was under the sea was an amazing experience - and then the wave panned down from above and sat at waist height giving the effect i was wading in the water - unreal.

These are the types of effects i want to recreate, but i think i would need full control, via a joystick on a midi controller or something. I need to be able to program in say 100 different animated effects / patterns / gobo's that give the best effect for the crowd and then be able to manipulate the chosen image and move it around myself - i hope this would be possible.

Looks like this bit of hardware software is quite expensive, so again any advice on where to get the best deal ??? Or is there anyone out there looking to sell their FB3 and Live Pro - please drop me a PM.

Does anyone have any video of Live Pro in action - i've seen the one on the Pangolin site but would love to see some more - just can't find much good info on it - need to look a bit harder i guess.

Cheers and thanks again for the heads up on the software.

JAMIE

[SUBZERO]

Just found this video.

How is it possible to project the beams but have the detailed animations halfway along the beams ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ESVVauxeJU

I thought this was only possible with a translucient screen ?

Or is it something that LivePro can do - ie put the hotspots along the length of the beam ?

I wonder if all these animations come with Live Pro ?

[SUBZERO]

These guys say Cypher Live Pro is an enhanced version of Pangolin Live Pro

http://lasereffects.co.uk/product-detail.htm?prodid=172

But which is better (Fight !!!!)

Surely Pangolin's version is the better one ?

[Jem]

Hi Jamie

... and welcome to the forum.

Regarding MIDI controllers, I have used both a Novation Remote Zero and a Behringer BCF2000. Personally I prefer the BCF2000, but that's just me , there are many here who prefer the Novation.

Mark (Insanity) is the UK's resident expert on using LivePRO with a MIDI controller, perhaps you could PM him for more advice.

The controllers are quite easy to set up with LivePRO once you have grasped the basics. Pretty much everything in LivePRO can be controlled by an external MIDI controller.

Whereabouts in the UK are you?, there may be someone near to you that can demo LivePRO etc.

I've just been sat playing with LivePRO (it's the only way to learn ) and have been re-programming my BCF2000. I have to say I just love what the program can do, but there again i'm just a Pangolin junkie

Cheers

Jem

[SUBZERO]

Hi Jem,

I'm acutally based down in Guernsey - Channel Islands. Bit far away for
most people - there are a couple of other guys with basic lasers down
here, but from what i've seen they just leave them in stand-a-lone mode
and they are just the red and green lasers from China.

Have our own little festival called the Vale Earth Fair that i am involved with.

4,000 to 5,000 people turn up late August for a one day event + i'm also
involved with VJing for alot of the big name House / Electro / Breakz / Drum and Bass
DJ's that come over which is great fun.

I'll look up those Midi Contollers and see what the specs are etc.

Really just getting into it so want to make sure my money is spent wisely. Hence all the questions.

Really impressed with the laser i have, but like i said before want to do more with it and give
myself alot more involvement in putting on the shows.

I've tried DJ'ing, but i just can't seem to grasp it, so i decided to have a look at VJ'ing
and since there are none over here it seemed like a good idea - i can associate alot
better with putting lasers / images / video to music rather than just mixing music.

The island is flooded with DJ's so just want to bring the crowds something different really.

A bit confused by the Pangolin Live Pro / Cypher Live Pro issues and also a bit confused on
the actual pricing of Pangolin Live Pro.

Says on the Pangolin Website :-

LivePRO is available free for LD2000 Professional users. If you have the Basic or Intro versions, you can still get LivePRO for only $695

So do you have to buy Basic or Intro as well as the Live Pro and the FB3 hardware ???

Confused !

Doesn't take much haha !

Can't get over the Pangolin Controller costing £1800 either - must be cheaper one's around.

Cheers

J.

[White-Light]

Just found this video.

How is it possible to project the beams but have the detailed animations halfway along the beams ?

They have an invisible scrim hanging from the roof and what you're seeing is the points of the beam patterns as they pass through the scrim. You have to remember that beams are just projected patterns. its just your watching them along their length rather than from the end as points of light on a surface.

[SUBZERO]

Ah i suspected that was the case !

Just wasn't sure if there was any new additions to Live Pro that
somehow made it possible to see the projected image halfway
along the beam, so it was possible to do it without the scrim.

Didn't think that it would be possible to define a hot spot in the
middle of a beam - One day that will be possible i guess.

I suppose at some of my gigs i could hang some of that scrim
10foot off the ground and project onto that.

Only problem is some drunk would no doubt jump up and
try to grab the shape, thinking it was a real entity, but
would end up pulling down the scrim and getting tangled
up in it all !

Nightmare - maybe we wont go there !!!