Pangolin overpriced?

[heroic]

CUDA is just using the Graphics Card as a processor. The graphics card alone without the rest of the pc can do nothing.

Not true. They can run on a passive PCI-E backplane. I've seen this done. All you need is either a custom video card ROM (commonly done by vendors) or a microcontroller to feed data to the card (which looks a lot like the QM.Net card).

Anyone who's seen a modern video player app crash can attest that these cards can keep going without the PC's assistance.

-J.

[JohnYayas]

Also, how often do computers crash these days? It isn't something I even think about anymore.

[300EVIL]

Also, how often do computers crash these days? It isn't something I even think about anymore.

Ah, But I have seen other laser show SW get stuck on frames when the CPU get's loaded up. This can cause horrible issues with the music syncing up with the laser and the show looks terrible. What is nice is that the QM2000 does not completely rely on the CPU to run the show. I'm not sure if it really helps with crashes but it sure can run a show without any stumbling.

[polishedball]

Ah, But I have seen other laser show SW get stuck on frames when the CPU get's loaded up. This can cause horrible issues with the music syncing up with the laser and the show looks terrible. What is nice is that the QM2000 does not completely rely on the CPU to run the show. I'm not sure if it really helps with crashes but it sure can run a show without any stumbling.

I'll be happy within 84 days when I can run QS on it. Reboot will be OK for me

[flecom]

Ah, But I have seen other laser show SW get stuck on frames when the CPU get's loaded up.

this happens to LivePRO also... open up LivePRO, then open up LSD2000 to try and change your scan size or something, LivePRO eats itself pretty hard, you get like 1~fps

[JohnYayas]

Ah, But I have seen other laser show SW get stuck on frames when the CPU get's loaded up. This can cause horrible issues with the music syncing up with the laser and the show looks terrible. What is nice is that the QM2000 does not completely rely on the CPU to run the show. I'm not sure if it really helps with crashes but it sure can run a show without any stumbling.

Well, you are right the QM2000 does that but it doesn't take a computer on a card to solve the problem. Take a 5.1 channel sound card for instance. Can you play music on it while heavily loading your computer without the audio breaking up? Think about what is going on and how much that sound card costs.

[300EVIL]

this happens to LivePRO also... open up LivePRO, then open up LSD2000 to try and change your scan size or something, LivePRO eats itself pretty hard, you get like 1~fps

I'll have to try that on my system, I believe ya but that may be just a querk that is hardware related or an unforeseen bug that needs to be tweaked. I do have one strange issue with my QM. Whenever I run the oscillator for abstracts with the video output window open, I get little spikes in the image. However, when I close the window, the abstract looks fine. Bill says it has to do with the graphics card and that seems to be the case because it only happens with my laptop. Still odd that a graphics card can affect the output of the QM.

Well, you are right the QM2000 does that but it doesn't take a computer on a card to solve the problem. Take a 5.1 channel sound card for instance. Can you play music on it while heavily loading your computer without the audio breaking up? Think about what is going on and how much that sound card costs.

Very true, I couldn't be happier with the output of a WAV file into a soundcard. It does seem quite solid on most computers.

[White-Light]

Still odd that a graphics card can affect the output of the QM.

I would presume that the graphics card processes the graphics before they're sent to the QM. Any slow down or problem with the GC coping therefore will have a knock on effect on the QM. That probably explains why your laptop does it but not your desktop.

I'd imagine a similar thing is happening with the Live Pro slow down mentioned above. I would guess that unless it is a bug, it simply down to a lack of computing power in the laptop used. One unfortunate consequence of software is the better and more featured it gets generally the more pc power is needed to run it.

[flecom]

I would presume that the graphics card processes the graphics before they're sent to the QM. Any slow down or problem with the GC coping therefore will have a knock on effect on the QM. That probably explains why your laptop does it but not your desktop.

I'd imagine a similar thing is happening with the Live Pro slow down mentioned above. I would guess that unless it is a bug, it simply down to a lack of computing power in the laptop used. One unfortunate consequence of software is the better and more featured it gets generally the more pc power is needed to run it.

I am pretty sure that the abstracts are calculated in the QM card aren't they? isn't that what QM stands for? Quad Modulator? I've heard it many times referred to as the "quadmod"

[Pangolin]

Hi All,

As Buffo and WhiteLight indicated (and as I have written many times myself), I am traveling a lot lately and I don't have a chance to look at PL very often.

First of all, I think it is important to understand that when you buy something from Pangolin, you are not only buying "that thing" (in the context of this discussion i.e. the QM2000), but a lot of other things too.

For example, when you buy LD2000, you not only receive the QM2000 board, but you also receive 9 pieces of software, more than 120 (soon to be 150) shows and demos, more than 350,000 (soon to be even more) frames and animations, a Tutorial DVD, plus lifetime free updates.

People who purchased LD2000 in November of 1999 and only had access to the internet, could receive every update we ever produced for LD2000 (hundreds of new features – some the subject of Patents, and some the subject of ILDA Awards). And with the recent release of the PangolinShows portal, can also receive the shows that we have included with the system for the past several years as well.

From what we have seen, in recent years, most if not all Pangolin competitors have started charging for updates. In the case of one competitor, we have seen them come out with -- and charge for -- two separate updates in the course of a single year, wanting an additional $150 for each update. This has NEVER happened with Pangolin and will never happen.

Also, don't forget the shows that we include with our system don't just land in our lap for free. We make deals with companies to allow us to distribute these to our users for free. At last count, we are distributing content that collectively cost Pangolin around $250,000 to distribute. So if you buy an LD2000 system for $1,495, you get $250,000 worth of content along with it. I don't know of any other company in any industry who is doing that...

I can say the same thing about QuickShow. Although it does not (currently) include any shows, it does include around 2000 cues which contain frames and animations from the greater LD2000 library, each of these frames and animations costing Pangolin *something*, and also arranged by professional laserist Derek Garbos -- the arrangement also costing us *something*.

Everything that you receive with the system cost Pangolin much more than any purchase price that we charge. And believe me, we are always pushing the envelope to deliver the most value we can, at the lowest price.

As for the question of being overpriced? Well, we are beyond serial number 10,000 on our LD2000 platform so, apparently more than 10,000 people didn't think it was overpriced... And I can say the same thing about literally every product we make -- especially most recently QuickShow which, over the past 11 months (since it's release last November), we are not able to keep in stock we sell so many of them, despite doubling our production capacity literally each and every month!

At my most recent executive meeting, when I mentioned that keeping up with orders was our biggest problem, two of the execs told me that I need to "put a 1 in front of the price" (i.e. change the price of QS from $595 to $1595). Any Harvard Grad will tell you that -- if supply can't keep up with demand, it's time to raise the price! I have been hesitant on doing something like that, but if the question is -- is "Pangolin" worth it, I think the fact that we can't keep up with demand says -- Yes, Pangolin is worth it!

And for those interested or saying that the Chinese are “eating our lunch”, this year 40% of our sales are in China. Only 8% in the USA... Pangolin is doing its part to help balance the trade deficit!

Anyway, those who participate in the creation / production / updating and improving of our software (and yes, there is a way for any of you to become involved -- and some already are), know that we are doing our best to give the maximum value for the minimum price. And -- when it comes to both technological achievement (hehe -- QS won the highest place ILDA Technical Achievement Award given for 2010), and offering real value (QS 2.0 has many many many features that 1.0 didn't and we won't be charging for an update... and LD2000 version 5.5 is coming soon too), I don't know of any other company who serves this industry as well as we do.

And there is one more point. Pangolin isn't only about offering the best technology at the lowest price possible, but also supporting the industry at large in many ways. We support the various Photon Lexicon meetings and LaserFreak meeting (at the most recent LaserFreak, no other software company was there – Pangolin had three people there). We write many articles about the laser show business and how to improve your own equipment. (One reason why Chinese laser projectors are getting better over the past year is because of my Projector Connections article, which we translated to Chinese and then distributed to all of the companies in China.) Indeed, of the 3500+ HTML pages on the Pangolin web site, only around 20 are dedicated to advertising Pangolin products. The rest are of an informational basis. This is one huge difference between Pangolin and our competitors. We don’t just take your money and put it into our pockets (I drive a Toyota…). We put the money right back into improving the overall industry as a whole.

So, “is Pangolin overpriced”? That’s for each and every person to decide for themselves. We have plenty of competitors who will be happy to take your money and put it into their pockets. And when it comes time for updates, probably charge you even more money for updates based on copies of things we developed a few years earlier. Or you can buy something from us once, and continue to receive updates for decades… The choice is yours! But based on the demand we continually see for our products, it seems that overwhelmingly customers believe that Pangolin is indeed worth every penny, shilling, yen, and pence!

Best regards,

William Benner