Pangolin overpriced?

[mixedgas]

[QUOTE=buffo;106082]Oh man... I get a little busy at work, and look at all the fun I miss!

Working my balls off, to be perfectly honest! Between the heat, the humidity, and these damned thick cotton uniforms that they made us switch to because of arc-flash hazards around the motor control center breakers... I swear one of these days I'm just going to burst into flames at work! (That, or melt...)

excuse me for crashing the thread, but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHs14ZTo96M

Please wear the Suit Adam.

Steve

[buffo]

Hi Steve;

Don't get me wrong, I understand the hazards that arc-flash presents. It's just that:

1) They won't allow us to rack breakers in or out anyway. In fact, we aren't even allowed to open the door to reset the heaters anymore. So the metal panel will always be closed when we're operating breakers. If the heaters trip and the button on the outside doesn't reset them, we have to call a friggin' electrician to open the door and reset them. (sheesh!)

2) Everything we operate is 480V or lower now. All the High Voltage stuff is off-limits, and as long as you're under 600 Volts and the door is closed, you don't need any special protection according to OSHA.

3) Even if they wanted to protect us from the exceptional case where they would give us special permission to rack in a breaker (or operate one of the High Voltage breakers), we could have simply put on a cotton jumpsuit over our existing uniforms and been just fine. (Not that I can ever see them letting us do that anyway...)

Instead, they put us all in these thick, heavy, itchy, sure-to-cause-a-case-of-heat-stroke cotton uniforms. And there's no need for it. Grrrr.

BTW - that exact video was part of our arc-flash training, believe it or not!

Adam

[mixedgas]

1) They won't allow us to rack breakers in or out anyway. In fact, we aren't even allowed to open the door to reset the heaters anymore. So the metal panel will always be closed when we're operating breakers. If the heaters trip and the button on the outside doesn't reset them, we have to call a friggin' electrician to open the door and reset them. (sheesh!)

Mea Culpa, in the game of technical dungeons and dragons, you have rolled the dice poorly and been attacked by one of the worst monsters, a "consultant"

wearing a safety suit when not needing it is a hazard. Youa re correct. Just like wearing a resperator causes almost as much damage as it prevents.

Steve.

[platinum]

I deal with 460V at up to ~100 amps/leg in HVAC. I get a kick out of opening up the panels in the control room and taking amp/voltage readings, but I always keep in mind how ridiculously dangerous that kind of power is. We never use PPE though...

I've so far never run across 600V equipment, but I hear we could eventually. (...like on a high-rise where the architect insisted on doing central supply air columns instead of individual air handler units every floor or so.)

-Jonathan

[buffo]

in the game of technical dungeons and dragons, you have rolled the dice poorly and been attacked by one of the worst monsters, a "consultant"

Even worse... We've been attacked by a micro-managing boss who thinks he knows it all. (Except he doesn't...)

The rest of the company decided (wisely) to go with the removable jumpsuits as the logical option, with the hot (and potentially dangerous - at least in the summer) cotton uniforms only issued to electricians and PCS technicians. (Who almost never do any work outside.)

But not my boss. Oh no. He unilaterally decides to outfit everyone with those hot unitforms. Jerk...

wearing a safety suit when not needing it is a hazard.

Sure wish I could get him to understand that...

Just like wearing a resperator causes almost as much damage as it prevents.

*Very* good example! I've seen people keel over from wearing a respirator in hot conditions. In most of the people I've treated, the danger from a heat-related emergency far outweighed the chemical exposure risk. Why is it that people are so careless when it comes to heat stroke?

Adam

[allthatwhichis]

I deal with 460V at up to ~100 amps/leg in HVAC. I get a kick out of opening up the panels in the control room and taking amp/voltage readings, but I always keep in mind how ridiculously dangerous that kind of power is. We never use PPE though...

I've so far never run across 600V equipment, but I hear we could eventually. (...like on a high-rise where the architect insisted on doing central supply air columns instead of individual air handler units every floor or so.)

-Jonathan

I found out today there are "no user serviceable parts" within my AC unit today... Those capacitor things "hold" a charge don't they? I think there was a faulty wire in there also...

[-=Jim=-]

*Very* good example! I've seen people keel over from wearing a respirator in hot conditions. In most of the people I've treated, the danger from a heat-related emergency far outweighed the chemical exposure risk. Why is it that people are so careless when it comes to heat stroke?

Adam

I hate to post this without facts but I thought it was proven that more Fireman have been seriously injured from elevated body core temperatures since they were required to wear all flame retardant clothing (omitting the trade name) than were from actual burns.

[mixedgas]

*Very* good example! I've seen people keel over from wearing a respirator in hot conditions. In most of the people I've treated, the danger from a heat-related emergency far outweighed the chemical exposure risk. Why is it that people are so careless when it comes to heat stroke?


I often wonder about middle eastern women who wear the heavy burkhas. That has to be suffering ina 110' climate. In my new neighborhood, in public the Amish Women wear black bonnets, black aprons that cover large amounts of their body on both sides, and often a black dress. If a "English" woman walks by in lite summer clothing, you can often see the flash of seething anger directed toward the Amish men.

Amish dresses come in one approved shade of blue, one rarely seen green, and a few shades of a pale mauve for the daring and unmarried. Men's shirts are almost always variations on a blue, but the pants are jet black and a heavy black suit jacket when traveling.

Add a "black leather" apron when ridding in the buggy for modesty.

Where I'm at there are more horses per square mile then people. Car washes come with underbody jet blasters.

I could not adapt to that on 80' days and I find it amazing the women do not riot when working in the sun.

While I can respect their faith, the idea of running a plow in black is a little extreme.

We'll save the shetland pony engined riding lawn mowers with wheel driven blades (for the wealthy Amish) for another thread.

We now return you to your Pangolin addiction.


Steve

[buffo]

This thread has really taken a turn off-topic! Nevertheless, Jim you are more or less correct. Heat emergencies are very common among firefighters. So common, in fact, that many fire departments now weigh the firefighters before they go in and after they come out of a fire to measure their fluid loss. They also measure vital signs (temp, BP, pulse rate, respiration rate, O2 saturation, etc..) to help determine when someone is not coping with the heat.

At the chemical plant where I work, we have our own volunteer fire department, high angle rescue team, spill team, and emergency medical team. Whenever there is a plant alarm, the ambulance is sent to the scene. And in cases where there are guys suited up in bunker gear (firemen) or Level A response gear (hazmat team), the EMT's check *everyone* before they go in and after they come out. And you'd be surprised at how many people we burn through in a typical call.

At a recent spill response, I was checking people after they came out of the hot zone. I measured blood pressures above 170 systolic on 5 people, and pulse rates above 200 on 3 of them! This was after less than 20 minutes in the area with a Scott Air pack and a sarnex suit on. We had over 15 responders for that call, and we used every one of them.

The good news is that in most cases you can train your body to deal with these incredible heat loads, if you work up to it. The heavily-clothed women that Steve mentioned have probably been dressing that way all their lives, so they are conditioned for the heat. That's not to say that there isn't still some risk, but they are far better able to deal with the heat than someone else who has never tried it before.

We actually see this at the plant. If we have a response situation and one of the guys on the fire team or the spill team has just come back from vacation, he's probably not acclimated to the heat yet. And sure enough, those are the ones that come out after 15 minutes, beet red and panting and drenched in sweat complaining of heat cramps. We're trying to educate people, but everyone wants to be a hero, and in doing so they frequently forget about their own safety...

Adam

[Things]

I found out today there are "no user serviceable parts" within my AC unit today... Those capacitor things "hold" a charge don't they? I think there was a faulty wire in there also...

Capacitors love to jump out of nowhere and grab your arm! Done that one too many times ....