Pangolin overpriced?

[flecom]

flecom, in response to your post, I feel your pain. I've alway wanted a couple more QM2K's, but since this is just a hobby, it's very cost prohibitive. The good news, from what I understand, is that at some point in the future a QM2K will be able to run FB3's. I heard this at a LEM some time ago, hopefully it's true!

I talked to bill about this at SELEM 2010 and he said QuickShow will eventually support mixing FB3's and QM2k's... but I think he mentioned that LivePRO and things like Showtime will NOT support mixing hardware

[flecom]

I guess I have to be the 'zealot' here. You do realize the QM2K was released 11 years ago, right?

yes and beyond is going to turn it into a fancy flashback... one of the things I asked bill is with all this 3D stuff the memory on the QM is going to be a huge limiting factor, will beyond use the QM2k as a framebuffer similar to how LivePro uses it or QS uses the FB3... answer was YES

[norty303]

I doubt if the solution will be Pangolin, since somehow, I doubt if the comments posted in this thread will be cause for Pangolin to change their pricing or marketing structure.

Don't be a pedant.

Companies can and do fail through not listening to the issues that their customers have.

In a world where projectors are getting ever cheaper, and multi projector shows more commonplace, the need is growing.

Lets not forget that Pangolin are not the only fish in the sea, and with access to lasering being easier, other companies have a viable business model. If any one them chooses to make 'multi projector control at a cheap price' one of their key marketing pins then things could change.

Yes, Pangolin have a good product, but they may need to revise their licensing model in todays and tomorrows world

[White-Light]

This can't come soon enough! I hope Bill's watching this thread and would be kind enough to give us an update...

Bill doesn't come round here very often and hes travelling at the moment. I've no doubt he'll eventually read it.

Help me to remember what was the time frame bill offered on the QM running in QS? wasn't we would see it in 2010?

You probably will but remember that was probably given before QS was delayed. I've no doubt as soon as QS is released, Pangolin will turn their hand to other projects including Beyond and the QM.

[smogthemog]

Do you work for, have shares in, are Bill's dad, part own etc Pangolin?

[White-Light]

No, I don't work for Pangolin. I've just being doing some very intense beta testing for Pangolin purely at hobby level as I have so much time on my hands, as a result, I'm in almost daily contact.

[JohnYayas]

you cant honestly believe that the way pangolin has their pricing structure setup for additional projectors makes ANY sense can you?

did you guys really drink that much of the pango-koolaid?

Pangolin is in business to make money for themselves... not to save you money. The pricing structure makes perfect sense because they make more money that way. The people who need the gear will buy it and move on. The whiners are not the people that keep Pangolin in business so lowering the price to meet their needs will not improve their business. Perhaps it doesn't make sense for YOU to buy Pangolin products if their business model does not meet your needs. That has been my beef with Pangolin all along. I have always said that and still say that they are smart in the way they are doing business. But, I think it is a bit silly for the hobbiest to spend that much money when there are cheaper and more expandable options. So, I do not think they are overpriced. I think they are appropriately priced. But, for what I do, they are not worth the money.

[norty303]

The pricing structure makes perfect sense because they make more money that way

Actually I'm not convinced.

People are more likely 'making do' than buiying the additional hardware. I would guess this is backed up by Pangolins recent concentration on getting QS2 out and sorted and the FB3 upgrade released. As Bill said in the old DJTraximus thread (or was it an email, I forget...) they did actually sell out of FB3's and were sales were going great.

I think that they may have had a smell of what they could be doing if they produced an affordable but powerful and scalable solution that sells to all of the 'new breed' with their cheaper projectors, rather than a much lower volume of 'Pro' sales to the reducing high end market. The gap is closing.

Seems to tie in with thinking on another recent thread....

[buffo]

Really late getting to this thread; sorry about that. (Still backlogged from my time in Illinois.)

Frank - couple things you need to remember: First - the QM is a completely functioning computer, complete with it's own operating system. So your "graphics card" analogy is flawed. The reason they charge $1500 for an intro board is exactly as Gary said - because they can, but in truth, you're buying not only the card but a copy of the OS that runs on the coldfire CPU. (Pangolin has never charged for software updates, and indeed they've even given away copies of some software - trace it comes to mind - to non-pangolin users for free.) So this is just like buying a computer; for each one you buy, you need a copy of Windows to go with it. (And yeah, you could run Linux on it, but then none of your other software - like Showtime - would work.)

Second: If all you want to run is Livepro! on multiple projectors, unquestionably the cheaper route is to use multiple FB3's. However, there have been some issues reported with the FB3 that are related to problems with Microsoft's USB implementation under Windows 7, and that might be enough to deter a professional from using it. The nice thing about using the QM hardware is that it's rock-solid stable. Pro's usually are willing to pay extra for that sort of stability.

Third, QuickShow2.0 is already out. You can download it from Pangolin's website. Granted, it doesn't support the QM-2000 hardware yet, but they have beta versions in-house that do. Bill told us at SELEM 2010 that he expects QuickShow for the QM-2000 to be released by the end of the year.

Finally, to those who have been calling Beyond "vaporware", know that if you had attended SELEM either this year or last year, you would have seen it in action. It is most definitely real. Also, it runs on the QM hardware as well as the FB3. It may not be released until later, but by no means does that place it in the "Duke Nukem' Forever" category...

Adam

[heroic]

Frank - couple things you need to remember: First - the QM is a completely functioning computer, complete with it's own operating system. So your "graphics card" analogy is flawed.

Apparently you're behind the times on what goes into a graphics card lately.

(Pangolin has never charged for software updates, and indeed they've even given away copies of some software - trace it comes to mind - to non-pangolin users for free.)

TraceIT requires a recognized Pangolin hardware device to run. And, they *have* charged for some upgrades.

Second: If all you want to run is Livepro! on multiple projectors, unquestionably the cheaper route is to use multiple FB3's. However, there have been some issues reported with the FB3 that are related to problems with Microsoft's USB implementation under Windows 7,

Windows 7's USB implementation is fairly strictly standards conforming; it's nearly as good as the MacOS implementation in that respect. Any problem with the FB3's behaviour under Windows 7 lies entirely in the FB3 or its associated software.

I hope to see substantial improvements in this in the near future.

Finally, to those who have been calling Beyond "vaporware", know that if you had attended SELEM either this year or last year, you would have seen it in action. It is most definitely real. Also, it runs on the QM hardware as well as the FB3. It may not be released until later, but by no means does that place it in the "Duke Nukem' Forever" category...

From Wikipedia:

Vaporware is a word used to describe products, usually computer hardware or software, that were not released on the date announced by their developer, or that were announced months or years before their release.

If the shit fits...