Pangolin's AutoPlay suggestions: post here

[Miss A.]

Hi again,

Now I'm part of the Pangolin family for a while and changed my nick, I want to use this new thread to collect suggestions to improve Pangolin's AutoPlay2000 for updates in the future! Bill: there is work to do !


================================================== =============================================
To start with:


1.
When adding a show to the list, you have to use the Browse button. AP will than always go to the LD2000 folder.
This is OK when all your shows can be found there, but when it isn't, it's very irritating that you have to browse constantly to your own show folder, for example the USB stick. Other Windows applications (and other laser software) do remember the last used folder you used. It would be great if AutoPlay can do this as well.

2.
When adding a show to the list, AutoPlay always asks "Would you like to automatically assign the start time, end time, frame file and media file?"
I think the answer is Yes in 99% of all cases. So, is it possible to add an extra checkbox somewhere to enable this question always to Yes?

3.
Using the Edit Show menu, you see the checkbox "Link to next show in list."
I think this is a little bit confusing, because it has to say "Link to previous show in list." It's a little bit more confusing when you re-arrange the list, using the up and down buttons next to the list. It could also be possible that you have forgotten to check one of the boxes, which can destroy your whole laser set.
This can be solved by adding small (check)boxes at the left side of the list. In each box you have to fill in the number sequence number of the played shows. As example:
2. Barry.
4. Clockwork.
1. Mambo.
Melody
3. Beamshow
The played sequence will than be: Mambo > Barry > Beamshow > Clockwork. The show Melody will be skipped because it has no number.

4.
At the right of AutoPlay you can see the Start time and End time of the current show.
It would be handy if you can read the remaining time as well, for example, to give the DJ or MC a cue when the show is ending.
It would be perfect if the remaining time of the whole show playback is displayed!

5.
As in LivePro, the Laser Preview Window is never enabled automatically during startup of AutoPlay.
It would be nice if this setting is stored is some INI file.

6.
The time of output of the next show is depending of the loading time of that next show. This because it's loading a show right after the previous one. Is it possible to load the up coming show already, during playback of the current one? This will eliminate nasty pause moments between shows.

7.
During playback, it's not possible to adjust the size and position of the show. OK, this has to be done before playing, but very often you don't know how the next looks like. It would be useful that we can access there sliders.

8.
For some unknown reason (to me) it's not possible to delete all shows from the show list, at least one show must be there. Why is that?
This could lead to problems if the path (or folder) of that show does not exist anymore! For example: if that show is at place number 5 of the show list, it will be loaded right after show 4. Show playback will stop because AutoPlay gave the error message.
If AutoPlay can do an 'existing check' for all show in the list, right before playback all shows, the problem is solved.
Maybe it's even better if we can remove the last show from the list as well.

9.
Ones the playlist is made and the Play button is pressed, it's not possible to add more show to that list.
This looks a bit strange to me, because 'the next' show is not already loaded into the QM2000, or is it?
If not, why can't we add a next show?

10.
......


Greet,
Miss Audrey

[soforene]

Hi Audrey,
I think that Bill prefers questions like this to be asked on Pangolins own forum so that he can respond directly.
Plus there may some Pangolin users that aren't members of this forum ( a crazy notion I know!) and if you were to make this post on the actual Pangolin forum then perhaps others might see it, chime in and Bill could see that the demand is there to address some of the "features" you've described.

[Miss A.]

Hi soforene,

I know what you mean; that was my first thought too.
But as you may know, this forum is much more used than Pangolin's forum.
So, it will reach more Pangolin users in the first place.
To give an example, here a copy of the current users of both:

PhotonLexicon:
Currently Active Users: 114 (58 members and 56 guests)

Pangolin's laser chat:
1 registered and 0 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

And that 1 user is me.
All I want is to gather new ideas and the best thing to do that, is were the users are. Here.
I will notify Bill about this (these) threads.

[soforene]

Ooooohhhh...
Wait till they unveil their new forum though.

If you build it, they will come .............

[Pangolin]

Sorry but I haven't had a chance to reply to this. Aside from Hayden who occasionally pops in, I am the only one on our staff who monitors and responds to PL.

When you send comments directly to Pangolin by email, it is much easier, because I can simply forward the email to others on my staff. Pangolin has a staff of 14 people, so generally I can forward the email to someone who is less busy than myself.

When it is on a forum post it is more difficult. I have to say "hey, go take a look at this post", and then the developer will reply to me, and then me back to the developer, and the developer back to me, and then we try to find the poster, etc. It might seem silly but it's much more straightforward with direct email. That way the developer can just reply directly with CC to me.

In briefly reading what you wrote, I will say that there are easy solutions. Just not much time for me personally to reply right now because I'm caught up with a lot of projects.

You could either wait a while longer, and I will gen-up a reply, or send direct email.

Bill

[andyf97]

Or you could and use the pangolin SDK and add the features to autoplay you need.

[Pangolin]

Hi All,

Regarding AutoPlay, first let me say that our goal was to create a very simple program for very simple-minded people to use. In fact, AutoPlay wasn't originally a part of the LD2000 platform. We were hired many years ago to write AutoPlay for use in a large hotel that has a shopping mall. There were only a few shows that the user could select and play, and also the user was not allowed to edit any aspects of the show. Eventually, we decided to release AutoPlay to the world, as part of our software.

So you have to remember that AutoPlay has a very simple premise. You can think of it as being "software for simple-minded people". And -- as simple-minded people -- you want to RESTRICT their capabilities as much as possible in some cases. So the software does certain things automatically -- for the benefit of simple-minded people.

Also note that some of the functionality of AutoPlay can be customized to your needs. For example, you can customize the titlebar and other text (to say "Worlds greatest shopping mall" for example), and you can customize whether or not the "Add" and "Edit" buttons are seen, and other aspects. The INI file can generally be found in Windows (but if you have VISTA this location is virtualized). If you search for the file "LD2Kauto.INI" (or is it LDauto2K, I can't remember...) you will find it.

Also, as Andy mentioned, we release the full source code for AutoPlay so that you can customize it even further, or even completely write your own AutoPlay type application. The program called LaserLight ShowControl was essentially an outgrowth from our AutoPlay source code.

Also one final note before answering the questions below. Our strategy of keeping this a simple program for simple-minded people has worked. As I mentioned above, there are more complicated and more capable player programs out there for LD2000. But we have received numerous emails essentially congratulating us on keeping AutoPlay a simple program for simple-minded people (these emails come from companies who install the program in shopping malls, for example)...

1.
When adding a show to the list, you have to use the Browse button. AP will than always go to the LD2000 folder.
This is OK when all your shows can be found there, but when it isn't, it's very irritating that you have to browse constantly to your own show folder, for example the USB stick. Other Windows applications (and other laser software) do remember the last used folder you used. It would be great if AutoPlay can do this as well.

Right. simple-minded people need consistency so that's why we did it that way... However, within the INI file, you can edit the starting folder and make it any starting folder you want. If you want AutoPlay to remember the last file location, what you could do is edit the source code and recompile .

2.
When adding a show to the list, AutoPlay always asks "Would you like to automatically assign the start time, end time, frame file and media file?"
I think the answer is Yes in 99% of all cases. So, is it possible to add an extra checkbox somewhere to enable this question always to Yes?

That's a good idea. We would have to change the code from using the standard Windows Message box to using something custom. This would be simple, but... as I wrote in another email, currently we are concentrating our time on, lets call it, more important endeavors.

I'd like to stop right here and say that if there are people who have VB programming experience and who are interested in working on this, please contact me (through private email). We'll get you signed up, and then add you to the list of contributors. We've done this with LD Asteroids. It works well and we always give credit where credit is due.

3.
Using the Edit Show menu, you see the checkbox "Link to next show in list."
I think this is a little bit confusing, because it has to say "Link to previous show in list." It's a little bit more confusing when you re-arrange the list, using the up and down buttons next to the list. It could also be possible that you have forgotten to check one of the boxes, which can destroy your whole laser set.
This can be solved by adding small (check)boxes at the left side of the list. In each box you have to fill in the number sequence number of the played shows. As example:
2. Barry.
4. Clockwork.
1. Mambo.
Melody
3. Beamshow
The played sequence will than be: Mambo > Barry > Beamshow > Clockwork. The show Melody will be skipped because it has no number.

Seems like a good idea on the surface, but then again we start to get away from the concept of "simple program for simple-minded people". When installed in shopping malls, most often the edit buttons are disabled, along with the buttons to re-arrange the list.

For this kind of suggestion I have two or three suggestions. One suggestion would be to buy a more-capable player program such as Laserlight ShowControl that specifically has "playlist" capability. Another solution would be to get the AutoPlay source and modify it as you see fit.

If you don't want to spend the time or money on one of the suggestions above, then your third option is to simply wait a short while. We have been contacted by a PL member who is working on another player program alternative to AutoPlay that will have "playlists" and a few other things.

For you PL people, you're not simple-minded people. You can use a more powerful program without getting yourselves into trouble. But I hope you can appreciate that there are people in the world (many in fact...) who are not nearly as smart as you. In fact, I am sure that almost everyone here is comfortable using the term "simple-minded people" to refer to some people you run into. Those are the people for whom AutoPlay is meant. Smarter people have options, as mentioned above...

4.
At the right of AutoPlay you can see the Start time and End time of the current show.
It would be handy if you can read the remaining time as well, for example, to give the DJ or MC a cue when the show is ending.
It would be perfect if the remaining time of the whole show playback is displayed!

Yes, LaserLight ShowControl has this. The other PL member writing the alternative player program is no doubt monitoring this thread and will thus, no doubt add such "count down" capability into their program. For me, I wouldn't want to confuse idiot users in shopping malls...

The Showtime program itself does have the ability to show you either "elapsed time" or "time remaining".

5.
As in LivePro, the Laser Preview Window is never enabled automatically during startup of AutoPlay.
It would be nice if this setting is stored is some INI file.

Again, for those simple-minded people in shopping malls, they're only supposed to press a PLAY button. God forbid we confuse them even further with a view of the laser...

I wouldn't be so insistent on some of these things if not for the fact that people have written me and specifically thanked me for keeping AutoPlay so simple. Some of our clients (the ones who install laser systems in shopping malls) tell me that they wouldn't buy Laserlight Showcontrol because it's so much more complicated (but also so much more capable).

As I recall, Laserlight ShowControl does have kinda like "setups" where you can arrange the windows and save them as setups, and then recall them later.

6.
The time of output of the next show is depending of the loading time of that next show. This because it's loading a show right after the previous one. Is it possible to load the up coming show already, during playback of the current one? This will eliminate nasty pause moments between shows.

There are a few potential solutions for this. One is to "preload". I worked with Patrick Dietzel (person who wrote Laserlight Showcontrol) to put pre-load capability into his program. So... it can be done. I've never put it into Autoplay because it would be another check box, and there would be some additional UI elements that might possibly (translate as "would probably") confuse simple-minded people.

For the other PL member who is working on the player program, I will be happy to work with him to put this "preload" capability into their program as well. It's not very difficult.

7.
During playback, it's not possible to adjust the size and position of the show. OK, this has to be done before playing, but very often you don't know how the next looks like. It would be useful that we can access there sliders.

Hehe. Just imagine such a tool in the hands of shopping mall simple-minded people... I shutter to think what they could do. And absolutely god forbid (and, in this case Pangolin forbid too ) you give people the capability of adjusting the POSITION of the laser. They would certainly park the laser down into the audience. Can you spell law suit?

8.
For some unknown reason (to me) it's not possible to delete all shows from the show list, at least one show must be there. Why is that?
This could lead to problems if the path (or folder) of that show does not exist anymore! For example: if that show is at place number 5 of the show list, it will be loaded right after show 4. Show playback will stop because AutoPlay gave the error message.
If AutoPlay can do an 'existing check' for all show in the list, right before playback all shows, the problem is solved.
Maybe it's even better if we can remove the last show from the list as well.

We've never had and never heard any complaints in this regard. Also, I think your scenario above essentially assumes that you will be using AutoPlay as a sequential player. Most often this is not the case. Most often the shopping mall operator selects a single show and presses "Play continuously".

9.
Ones the playlist is made and the Play button is pressed, it's not possible to add more show to that list.
This looks a bit strange to me, because 'the next' show is not already loaded into the QM2000, or is it?
If not, why can't we add a next show?

Most show-related changes are prevented once you enter a PLAY mode. To me, the reason is obvious. If it were possible to edit an existing show while it was playing, this might cause -- at the very least, confusion, and at most, things to blow up. Even in the case of adding new shows during playback, if the previous show was "linked", and you are adding a new show, BUT if you didn't quite get finished with your adding/editing procedure, then what should the program do?

So this is a philosophical question. "What should the program do." We try to avoid this kind of question -- both from the standpoint of programming and also from teh standpoint of using. If a programmer can't easily figure out the answer, how the heck is a user supposed to know what it does before they even try?


I guess it should be clear that there were conscious decisions made to keep AutoPlay a simple program. Ordinarily we work to add and add and add capability and for some users, it makes them happier. But we've seen first hand what happens if you put a very capable program into the hands of simple-minded people. Either they get confused and buy a simple program, or they screw things up. We have been sent emails from clients who use and install AutoPlay, thanking us for keeping it simple. So in this case, certain parts of AutoPlay will stay simple forever.

Nevertheless, users have options. They can either buy a third-party player program, customize AutoPlay themselves, or simply wait for an upcoming free player program alternative.

Best regards,

William Benner

[Miss A.]

Hi William,

Thank you for replying! Now I know how Pangolin is thinking a bit.
But I still have a few remarks about your answers.

LivePro as the 'Simplied Interface' button, to disable some functions. Maybe this can be written in AutoPlay as well. In this way not only idiots can work with AutoPlay, but also the Professional laserist. This function can be protected by password if desired.
I don't want to compare AutoPlay with 'the other software from Germany' but it has this password protected interface switch. (This was a really wanted function, posted by Stanwax Rob) This software has even a function in it to set the pause time between shows.

Second, you are talking about changing the INI file, using Visial Basic, using the SDK software, using LaserLight Show Control. I assumed that Pangolin wanted to -stay- the the best laser software company. In this way people will 'run away' from AutoPlay and -have- to use other software, because of the limitations of AutoPlay. In other words, it would be great if AP gets its own evolution too.

So, please please do not focus on idiots but focus on us, professional laser software users.

All the best,
Audrey

[Pangolin]

In other words, it would be great if AP gets its own evolution too.

Yes, well, as I have already explained -- we might do such a thing if we didn't receive so many emails from clients thanking us for keeping Autoplay a "simple program".

There are already other player programs available (and from what I understand, another one on its way).

One thing we realized long ago is that we can't be all things to all people. We offer a wide variety of products for a generalized clientelle that we serve, and we offer the ability for people to extend the functionality if they want to. That way, people can get what they want.

In your case, I would say just wait a short while and I think this other, lets say "Autoplay alternative" will do what you want. Then everyone will be happy -- my clients installing Autoplay in shopping malls and you .

So, please please do not focus on simple-minded people but focus on us, professional laser software users.

I hate to say it but there are more of them then there are of you. In other words -- far more simple-minded people than intelligent people. (That's one reason why we postponed BEYOND development to work on QuickShow.)

The fact that we've done so well so far means that we have done a good job at serving the overall marketplace including both simple-minded people and complex peoples (one way or another).

Bottom line -- there are player programs for simple people (Autoplay), there are player programs for those who want a really complex and feature-packed tool (Laserlight Showcontrol) and there will soon be a player program for you too. So... seems like everyone should be happy.

Really it doesn't matter who does the development, whether it is Pangolin or Patrick Dietzel or this other guy (I just don't want to pre-announce something when he hasn't spoken up yet himself). There are a wide variety of solutions available for the LD2000 platform.

In fact, now that I think about it, there is another player program too that is included with LAStudio. LAStudio is free software available as an add-on for the LD2000 series and FB3. The LAStudio player program may very well have the features you want too...

Best regards,

William Benner

[daedal]

I'd like to stop right here and say that if there are people who have VB programming experience and who are interested in working on this, please contact me (through private email). We'll get you signed up, and then add you to the list of contributors. We've done this with LD Asteroids. It works well and we always give credit where credit is due.

Best regards,

William Benner

So... how does one go about acquiring this source code?

Any special resources/libraries required for building/compiling the application?

--DDL