WiFi connection for USB devices - sorted

[ElektroFreak]

Using the latest version of UltraVNC, I notice very little lag between computers (can't speak for handheld devices). Sure, the graphics are a little choppy, but I'm not trying to play video games. Every mouse click causes an instant response on the remote computer, and if there is lag I can't tell..

[heroic]

The minimum lag that is possible with wifi and VNC is about 80 milliseconds, which isn't really good enough for a beatmatched live performance. You can get much better using this USB-over-ethernet device, down to the point where the delay is imperceptible.

[ElektroFreak]

I understand what you're saying, but 80ms isn't even a perceptible amount of time when your talking about a stage full of Martins and par cans all doing their own thing along with the lasers.. I haven't had any problem keeping things fairly well beatmatched so far.. perfection would be nice and this method is far superior to be sure, but 80ms is really not much time. Using the latest version of UltraVNC every move I make is smoothly reproduced on the remote machine instantaneously (at least so far as my senses can tell.) The graphics on the control computer are very choppy, but that's irrelevant to me since I can see the results of my actions by watching the laser itself.

[heroic]

Well maybe I'm overly sensitive to mismatches (I am a DJ, after all) but 80 msec is easily long enough to "look off" in a beatmatched composition. Especially if the lights are locked but the laser isn't.

I got this figure by measurement- used a PS/2 keyboard, a dual trace scope, a Coherent LPM with logger output and two Macbook Pros on 802.11n wifi.

Minimum latency comes down to a more reasonable 45 msec when I use wired ethernet, but it's still longer than I'd like. It's also highly variable, wherein the delay depends on what is going on on the screen (since VNC is a state machine and it won't necessarily listen to keystrokes while it's busy updating itself).

[ElektroFreak]

I can understand being overly sensitive. I do a bit of audio engineering and production work, and any soundcard latency over 6ms is noticeable to me. I just recently started doing small shows, but so far I have yet to have anyone come up to me and say "dude, your lasers ware a few hundredths of a second off." It really depends on audience perception more than my own. I am, like you, a huge nitpicker, so I will be using this system as well, but part of me keeps asking if it's really worth it if the only person that will notice is me (and even I have a hard time noticing)..

[heroic]

so far I have yet to have anyone come up to me and say "dude, your lasers ware a few hundredths of a second off."

In my experience, people will never say things like this; they respond to improved lock and improved aesthetics in a qualitative way, rather than a quantitative one. I've had lacklustre shows (where, for example, one of my FB3s was laggy and the projector crashed a couple of times due to USB signal integrity problems) and rather than noticing that one laser was slow, the guests at the party just respond slightly less positively than they would otherwise.

[ElektroFreak]

Really? Are you sure?? come on, man, that's common sense stuff. I only said that to make a point. While there is always room for improvement no matter what (if I get an FB3, sure I would do better with a LD2000), fortunately for me my audience response has been GREAT!!! They eat the stuff up. As a DJ (who isn't a DJ these days) you should know that 90% of your audience will like your set even if you think it sucks as long as you play good tracks. The real nuances of the mixes (as long as your not a train-wreck king) are known only to you. It's the same with the lasers.

When people come to our events they aren't coming to see lasers, they're coming to listen to music and get wasted, laid, or something like that plain and simple. When we do parties here in STL, we use lasers as merely the icing on the cake. My system runs for maybe an hour total out of an 8+ hour party, only during the peak hours. It's about .01% of the whole show. A 40-80ms lag is meaningless when the shows are done this way. Hell, I could play shows that aren't even synced up at all and the audience (in their widely varying mental states) wouldn't know it. Now I'm not saying that's a license to provide crappy shows, but I am saying that 40-80ms is irrelevant in this type of environment. A perfect sync is very important if you're doing a real concert or a planetarium show, but in front of a few thousand ravers/clubbers who are barely aware of themselves... nah. not so much.

There are certainly times when perfection is needed (it always nice to have perfection, of course, but sometimes budgets prevent it) and others when it's most definitely not. As my experience grows and my equipment improves, so will the caliber of my shows. I'm not going to worry about an 80ms lag when I know I will be the only person to notice.. I'm actually just proud to have the knowledge necessary to build my own equipment (including DACs) and have the kind of results and feedback that I've gotten. It really is amazing what can be done with the right know-how when you are just a guy with no budget, a family and mouths to feed and other obligations that vastly supercede lasers and parties.

[heroic]

Yes, I'm sure.

Yes, I have other commitments (I do this stuff for free, with my own money, just because I love playing with lasers and want to make parties as good as I can).

Yes, I've seen shows go well, and shows that sucked, and yes, the audience was a large part of it.

We've tried running over VNC, and, well, get this: I don't actually care if the audience can't tell the difference because they're tripping, rolling, drunk or just plain ignorant. *I* can tell the difference. Remember, I'm doing this because I want to do it, not because someone is paying me to do it- I'm doing it for my own personal satisfaction. That satisfaction is maximized when I'm playing the best show I possibly can.

As for people not being able to tell the difference between a good DJ and a bad one- that is absolute and total rubbish. I've seen a party go from "losing people" to "banging it hardstyle" when a good DJ came on. It wasn't the tracks (Berlin techno all sounds kinda the same). It was the skill at working the crowd that mattered.

[ElektroFreak]

[QUOTE=heroic;110859

As for people not being able to tell the difference between a good DJ and a bad one... [/QUOTE]

You've got to stop putting words in my mouth... that's not what I said. Of course a DJs persona and track selection have a HUGE impact on show quality, but if his mixes are 40-80ms out of sync, there are very few people who would notice it, especially on a big system in a big, acoustically imperfect space.

Look, the real bottom line is that it's different strokes for different folks.. As long as people still come up to me after the show and are thrilled I'm happy. that's what counts. The people who pay me to do the shows still ask me to come back and do more. I couldn't be more pleased. Sure I could improve my shows, I'm sure you could improve yours (oh, no wait, you define perfection in every facet of your life and personality, apologies for even suggesting otherwise). I, myself, and only me can't justify spending over $100 for a few ms improvement that *I* and only *I* will notice. There will be a time when I will have to justify it, just not quite yet.

[heroic]

I'm glad you're having a good time. You seem a little overly defensive though.

The really cool part about this device is that it means I can run more than one FB3. Can't do that with VNC.