Laserscope Modification Just Finished!

[ltaudi1]

Just couldn't help myself.

[Diachi]

Corrected that for you...

Hahaha

Seriously Allen - you should listen to these guys and stop talking crap. They know what they are doing. they have MUCH more experience than you. If you don't want to listen to them then see what happens when the CDRH/FDA get you.

[buffo]

Hmmm. Just noticed that he said he asked for help with filing for a variance and didn't get any....

Did I miss that thread? Because if he's right, then maybe we just need to give him some guidance. OK, maybe a lot of guidance, but still...

Adam

[Laserman532]

Hmmm. Just noticed that he said he asked for help with filing for a variance and didn't get any....

Did I miss that thread? Because if he's right, then maybe we just need to give him some guidance. OK, maybe a lot of guidance, but still...

Adam

my experience with dealing with him is if he ask for advice and you give advice he will automatically turn around and tell you what you are doing wrong or how he can do it better, cheaper, quicker and so forth.

If you read my post to him you will notice than I learned of his know it all attitude a long time ago.

i say let him go out and let the chips fall where they may. Im done with giving him advice, because one can not listen when their lips are moving.

[Phredy1]

I am confused...

It went from:
(2009-11-02 03:39:05) PDJA: yo u ready to see the lasershow video i took?
(2009-11-02 03:39:08) PDJA: with my scope
(2009-11-02 03:39:11) PDJA: www.allen.dj
(2009-11-02 03:39:15) PDJA: the first vid
(2009-11-02 03:39:17) PDJA: in the middle
(2009-11-02 03:43:29) SPEC: Im sure that had a variance.
(2009-11-02 03:43:37) PDJA: LOL
(2009-11-02 03:43:41) PDJA: its my laserscope

To:
Ok, For all you dumb ones who cant tell that the laser being used in that video is a 4.95mw laser with A LOTTT of fog... chauvet makes it...

To:
in the video of the earlier laser, that was a chauvet laser RG55
(which is 10mW)

[buffo]

Phredy;

I agree, it is confusing. But at this point, we have to choose between ostracizing him or helping him. Granted, there has been a lot of unnecessary drama. But I'd like to think that there is still hope. After all, Allen is probably looking for a way out of this too. Is it so hard to meet him in the middle?

Pat;

I felt much as you do, until I had a long chat with Casey Stack the other day. He suggested that we try again, for all the reasons that PL was originally set up for. That's what we're all here for, right? To share information and make this hobby (or industry, if you prefer) better for everyone, right?

Honestly, wouldn't it be better for everyone to have him doing things the right way? Maybe it's worth it for the good of the community to bend our egos a bit and start over.

I'm willing to give a "Do Over" a try... How about you?

Adam

[mixedgas]

[QUOTE=buffo;121656]Phredy;

I agree, it is confusing. But at this point, we have to choose between ostracizing him or helping him. Granted, there has been a lot of unnecessary drama. But I'd like to think that there is still hope. After all, Allen is probably looking for a way out of this too. Is it so hard to meet him in the middle?

end quote.

THIS POST IS NO WAY A ENDORSEMENT OF HELPING THIS FELLOW, I'm just exploring the issues. I'm inclined to say NO!, but he has a very dangerous laser.

Hum, I have my doubts as he has exhibited memory failures as well as inconvenient truths. I what I as a layman would see as symptoms of E use or Aspergers in him. Ie the "run on" paragraph, with obvious anger. Why should I allow a person who has lied and broken the rules to fly a plane. A KTP is every bit the responsibility of a twin engine, propeller, commuter aircraft flying between islands. He's going to need to prove he can stay awake and be pilot in command.

The informal poling on the professional and semiretired professional side is removal from the industry. I have no intention of being SOFT on laser safety. And Allen, 20+ people in Moscow got permanent damage when a industrial/medical laser very similar to yours was aimed into a audience.
And I'm willing to bet in Russia there was no social security or disability for those folks to fall back on, No Insurance, and no MegaRuble lawsuit to provide for them. The rest of their lives with a debilitating injury, and most of them were 20 somethings. That is 50 plus possible years of life with impairment for going dancing one night.

The public expects the person exposing them to a laser to know what is doing and the government to keep them safe. Does this guy have the A. the morals, and B. the mental health, and C. the balls, to accept that responsibility. Can he get in a promoters face and say, I'm NOT gonna do what you ask, its unsafe, and I'm willingly going to lose money and pack up? That level of responsibility is what this takes.



How do we shield ourselves and Admin from liability and or criminal prosecution for helping him? Yet we would need to keep the process
transparent to show "rehab" and due diligence. Only way I can see around that is that he hires a consultant. He is probably already in trouble. He DID violate the rules. Ignorance of the law is NO excuse. There was no ignorance here, he was aware that the laser was not varianced. Ignoring it is WORSE.

An unvarianced KTP in public was possibly another Moscow that could have happened every .00001 second with that laser.

If this "rehabilitation" happens, there will be rules. Some of them I would propose will be listed below.

Rules, and other rules may and WILL be added as needed.

0. Somebody goes and meets with this guy and gets a impression, call it a pseudo med/psych exam. He needs mentoring, and who in Cali is has a vari and will be his mentor? That may be more of a ILDA member's function.

00. He needs ILDA membership and participation at a student level. But he does not display the logo on the web site, per the rules. Casey or Pat sets this up with ILDA and ILDA is aware of what happened.

1. He gets business insurance. Not a rider on somebody else's policy.

2. Any offer to do lasers GOES AWAY from his web site, even the Chauvet, until he has permits in place.

3. He shows up proof of the needed gear for safety, and that includes goggles and the power meter, and receipts for ownership.

4. He stops doing lasers period, until varianced. One wiff of a gig with coherent photons ....., Oh wait, there is NOTHING I can do to stop him.
I got a problem with that.

5. I think he needs to have a dialog with the regulatory forces in this industry, state and federal. That probably requires a lawyer, at this point, or a laser safety consultant with day to day relations with regulators. A consultant is probably better, as no lawyer seems to understand the rules, ie his odds of finding a lawyer that will not muck things up is nil. Yet he probably needs a lawyer. While we are not a court, its safe to say he broke rules.

6. He hires a consultant.

7. We see progressive steps, ie the flow of information is step by step, based on progress and we see video/photos/photocopies of progress.

8. In my mind he starts small, using the ions, and once he shows competence, amend the variance for the KTP. In the mean while, we get video of the Qswitch/KTP xtal being pulled and sent to a third party for safe keeping.
Disarmament, you might call it....

9. No subcontracting to get around the rules.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as8VPUzReeU, if you just picked up a whitelight, would you not BE asking questions?


I'm not seeing remorse, I'm seeing anger that others did NOT help him achieve HIS goals. I'm seeing LAME excuses. Are HIS goals our goals?

I'll await Pat's and Admin's comments on this one.

[Laserman532]

you will "NOT respect my authoritiii"

Hey dont look for me to endorse or condone any actions by any "laserist"

I have no desire to make him my little laserist project or to mold this innocent ball of laser clay.

He is a grown man (20yrs) he has the burden of proof to show he is a professional and that is something you earn (or go down in flames trying). Im not gonna be a police to protect the public, performers or operator.

Where or how he gets his gear is of no concern of mine. How he uses his gear is of no concern of mine. The results of how he uses his gear is of no concern of mine. If he is legal or not is of no concern of mine. There were dozen of illegal shows / operators in my day. It is a common problem that will continue to perpetuate.

His introduction into commerce of lasers without proper credentials shows he is irresponsible. To show he is responsible he must stop advertising & performing until ALL of his equipment and processes are within 100% compliance...It is not only a good idea...ITS THE LAW!!!

I have voiced my opinion on the dangers of the KTP laser, heed it or suffer...your choice. Frankly any laser over say 50 mw can blind you.

I applaud you guys for your contribution in guiding him to do the right thing, i dont have the patience for ignorance. I have zero patience / respect for liars. (general statement nothing implied )

ILDA has no teeth and does not step into enforcement of regulations with exception as a condition of membership. Casey could be of GREAT service to PRODJALLEN. Will he hire him? NOPE, because my experience with him is that he is cheap, and cuts corners everwhere. When given FREE advice he finds some reason to say you are wrong (after taking your advice and implimenting it). My response to him was..."well if you know everything, then why are you asking me?"

He has the ability to change his ways but that is an individual choice.

I will step out of the way for you guys to mold this individual... but if I see bullshit...I WILL call bullshit.

I sound like a grumpy old man (and I probably am) but the ease of getting coherent light these days takes NO effort, NO education and only a few bucks. Basically any YAHOO with a few bucks can go out get a V-Burner and think they are professional.

This thread has a zillion views with very little technical knowledge passed. Only drama. My contribution will be to not impart any more technical knowledge that will enable the equipment to operate at peak performance.

Legal aspect??? thats your baby, i'm out of it.

[Laserman532]

in reference to the white light 164 video. Something smells fishey.

the narrator said ok mike...then Allen...here is the blah blah.

was this an individual trying to sell the laser to allen and it was a sales video showing how it works? Does he (allen) actually own this laser?

Technical problems with laser (I noticed at least 5 problems) with the laser. Mistruths or lies with respect to its operational capabilities by the narrator.

Narrator did not identify himself so I will reserve further comment.

[prodjallen]

Yes I do own them, and ya it was a sales video... Remember I said mint condition, look at the red, has not gone down in power one bit... Heres the pics of when I tested it for the first time...

-Allen